Starts (why Mark Webber is losing out)

[donskar]

Isn't the clutch capable of being set to slip a pre-determined amount on initila acceleration? The analogy I'm thinking of is the technology behind fuel dragster starts. With 8,000 HP (approx), just "dumping the clutch" would turn the tires into puddles of melted rubber. The work around is a clutch set up that allows the clutch to slip a pre-determined amount off the starting line. Each team (as I understand it) has a clutch specialist who sets the clutch: too much slip = slow off the line; too little slip = tire spin. Is this the same for F1 or am I on the back side of the moon here?

[Richard]

I have a dim recollection that they can adjust the clutch pressure on the formation lap (because it is hydraulic?) some will like a sharper bite than others (just like they do with different brake pads) but the paddle has to be linear from 0 to 100. It all comes down to the sensitivity of the driver's fingers and right foot.

edit to add:

Here are two videos that explain there is a clutch slip setting on the wheel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEvZFvNKNaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Zkbbfy ... re=related

Great quote from Ferrari - The button called "pump inserts oil into the engine in certain situations, for example when we want to pump oil into the engine"

[marcush.]

No .
The cluch levers are electric switches not hydraulic pumps.So the feedback -what feedback?
It certainly is not what you got in feedback in your fingers but feedback in terms of vibration and accelerations/moments as you feel the clutch starting to bite .The swarm of angry bees around you at the start line + the tension you got due to the race about to start is a very delicate thing and sure you are in a debilating environment as well...

[Richard]

I was referring to the ability to adjust the clutch slip pressure with a switch on the wheel. Presumably the clutch pressure is controlled by a hydraulic system.

I agree that the paddles on the wheel are electronic and feed back is via the steering wheel and the seat of his pants.

[dren]

With as many botched starts Webber has had the last two years you would think the guy would practice and solve them.

[Richard]

dren - How bad is he, what are the stats rather than conjecture?

[MrBlacky]

Am I the only one who think it's not himself, but his crappy crew? Nearly every race of Webbo in the past was screwed up by wrong stratetic decisions.
So no douubt they tell him shitty clutch settings, he might have a shot at Vettel after the first corner lol.

[RB7ate9]

With as many botched starts Webber has had the last two years you would think the guy would practice and solve them.

I had the same thoughts, but after discussing the issue with a friend, we reasoned that the only way to do that was to actually get in his car (since it would be far different in terms of technology between the RB7 and anything else, even the old RB6 and Red Bull Show Car), but since there is a ban on mid-season testing, any time spent on a road, in the cockpit, and under its own power are prohibited.

Believe me, I've been yelling your idea at my TV all season.

[dren]

dren - How bad is he, what are the stats rather than conjecture?

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/08/i ... rand-prix/

Check out James Allen's stat analysis on overtaking on starts. Only Maldonado and Perez are worse than Webber.

Every time I watch the start of a race, Webber is being passed. I thought it was funny at Instanbul when Rosberg qualified right behind Webber on the grid and Rosberg stated in the post qualification interview that he was going to fly right by Webber on the start...which he did easily.

[raymondu999]

Dren - I don't ever remember 2nd placed man holding his position into turn 1 in Turkey. Except maybe JB in 2009. Did he? He did alright in Valencia and Monaco, it's just that the Ferrari's were blazing quick at those circuits off the start. Spain he got off alright, just that he was kind of confused whether to cover his teammate, or Fernando

[Ray]

There's something going on with the car, I don't remember Mark getting smoked off the line every race last season. Surely the man knows how to get an F1 car moving, he's never had the reputation of being a crappy starter. If he can get it out of the pits reliably, and he does, then something with the car is wrong at the starts. I remember an interview with Mark that Peter Windsor did in F1Racing magazine. Mark was driving a Porsche GT and Peter kept saying how beautifully Mark could heel and toe. He's no dummy, I suspect it's either the car or he and his race engineer can't figure out what's wrong. If Red Bull want to win the WCC they need to rectify the problem, he's had great drives ruined by poor starts.

[dren]

I agree, he's botched quite a few starts and had to claw his way back to the front. Hope he figures things out sooner than later.

[Lycoming]

Just watching his starts, the revs consistently drop down into the 7000's. Vettel's "good" start at silverstone, he just held it at 8000. Mclaren/Ferrari never drop below 8500 or 9000. We don't get to see starts from the other renault engined cars but even so, at the start, its obvious and consistent: they just hemmorhage revs.

[strad]

I agree, Webber seems to get bogged down, either his revs are too low .

Richard..In the onboard of Webbers start, it was pretty clear he didn't have the revs up. Now I don't know if that is on him or the software, but somebody is trying to launch him at too low revs.
@Richard:

Great quote from Ferrari - The button called "pump inserts oil into the engine in certain situations, for example when we want to pump oil into the engine

They all have a reservoir and a system to replenish the oil as it's used up.
You'll recall a few years ago when the McLaren was smoking badly at the start because of a problem with that system.

[raymondu999]

Huh? The revs are kept up by the driver's foot in the floor. And yes that's a manual procedure in F1 starts.