Mid-corner understeer

[Jersey Tom]

Corner entry is transient, but often not that transient. I'd say springs, bars, and nose weight are going to have as much or more an affect than dampers.

I still like my explanation the best Temperature, transients, and all other fanciness aside... what the tire is doing at small steer angles vs large are just two totally different animals.

Shouldn't you care more about slip angle rather than steer angle?

In a really, really fast corner you could need little steering input to generate maximum slip angle, whereas in a slow corner you need to turn the steering a lot to reach the maximum slip angle.

Of course steer angle also affects diagonal weight transfer, that's why I ask you.

Sure, slip angle would be the more proper term in this case.

Point being, I think it's wise to look for simple answers rather than going down the road of elaborate handwaving and speculation of temperature build-up and all this.

With a super simple 4-parameter formulation of the Pac tire model you can quite easily come up an example front and rear tire set that's neutral or even oversteer on turn-in and then huge understeer mid corner.

[silente]

With a super simple 4-parameter formulation of the Pac tire model you can quite easily come up an example front and rear tire set that's neutral or even oversteer on turn-in and then huge understeer mid corner.

How this tyres curve should look like? Front with bigger cornering stiffness than the rear but bigger SA at force peak?

4-parameter PAC model---> LAPSIM by Bosch?

[Jersey Tom]

Something like that.

I don't know what Bosch's program uses. But the most simple functional lateral force model is 4 parameter.

[silente]

JT, you didn't answer the more interesting question

[Caito]

JT, you didn't answer the more interesting question

JT will not answer you a question, he'll guide you to the answer.


Just the way he is, a more didactic approach.

[Jersey Tom]

JT, you didn't answer the more interesting question

Something like that.

[olefud]

I'd say springs, bars, and nose weight are going to have as much or more an affect than dampers.

Yeah. I wasn’t clear on this. The point is that using adjustments such as roll resistance will affect both turn in and steady –state turning. The thought is to use them first to tidy up the steady state –which will affect turn in-, and then work on turn in with dampers, Ackerman, camber (static and gain) that have a larger effect on turn in than steady state. This can be a wiggle in process.


A big wild card in the process is the driver. One driver’s perfect setup is another driver’s dog setup.