I'm not sure you're not onto something there. In the past many a race was ruined by a cracked exhaust.Could these chambers be used in formula 1 to prevent the exhaust from cracking due to resonance?
I'm not sure you're not onto something there. In the past many a race was ruined by a cracked exhaust.Could these chambers be used in formula 1 to prevent the exhaust from cracking due to resonance?
With reference to a Helmhotz Resonator, placing one on an individual exhaust runner would see it primarily affect that cylinder correctly and likely cause uneven reversions in the other runners. You could in theory have one per runner however it is possible to set up other strange harmonics and/or resonances.bhallg2k wrote:So, what's the difference between placing a Helmholtz resonator on the exhaust header (manifold) and placing one further down the exhaust pipe (where Ferrari have placed their chamber)? At what point along the exhaust is the Kadenacy effect no longer applicable?
But in all of what you have said, you have not stated what you think it is used for.aussiegman wrote:With reference to a Helmhotz Resonator, placing one on an individual exhaust runner would see it primarily affect that cylinder correctly and likely cause uneven reversions in the other runners. You could in theory have one per runner however it is possible to set up other strange harmonics and/or resonances.bhallg2k wrote:So, what's the difference between placing a Helmholtz resonator on the exhaust header (manifold) and placing one further down the exhaust pipe (where Ferrari have placed their chamber)? At what point along the exhaust is the Kadenacy effect no longer applicable?
Placing in the merged exhaust pipe as Ferrari has done is the the most efficient application and more evenly spreads the effect across the runners. Distance away for the exhaust valve would decrease the direct effect at that particular interface due to dispersion and interference, however it would be a case of crunching the numbers and testing to determine most efficient size and placement.
With regard to Kadency Effect, the practical application theory differs between proponents, however the primary source of the effect is a compilation of greatest change in diameter or merger of flow and the distance from where the originating source of the pressure wave.
Typically the first of either a diameter transition or flow merger is where the greatest effect is garnered. You can have complimentary transitions or mergers such is in the Ferrari exhaust shown.
In other application, longer primaries in 4-1 designs vs. 4-2-1 setups show differing application of the effect. However the extra complexity usually gains a reduction in any single benefit from my experience. Again, it would be a case of doing the maths and practical testing to find the best compromise in the solution.
Durability is obviously difficult on F1 exhaust bundles, but I doubt durability explains any resonators. On production cars bad vibrations are typically dealt with by putting little rubber mass dampers on the pipe (for lower frequency problems), or just rigidly fixing little masses to the pipes in good locations (for higher freq problems). I think we saw some of the latter on 2011's blown exhaust outlets.n smikle wrote: Interesting that you mentioned Resonance. I know resonance can have damaging effects on a machine. So I am going to put another view out there:
Could these chambers be used in formula 1 to prevent the exhaust from cracking due to resonance? In other words to increase the life of the exhaust. Paddy Low said that a typical F1 exhaust only last about 1000km.
I thought I had in my first post. No problem, my personal expectation is that the Helmhotz Resonator tube is likely being used to increase the efficiency of the "Kadenacy Effect" in a specific RPM range of the engine to maximise cylinder filling and efficiency.n smikle wrote:But in all of what you have said, you have not stated what you think it is used for.
Well, it used to be by one old bloke in his garden shed.n smikle wrote: Wow that's really thin! Almost paper thin!
0.065" wall stainless is pretty difficult to weld as it is. I wonder how they weld that?
They are used in gas turbine (and I think rocket engine) combustors for that purpose. In a combustor you can (often) have strong aeroacoustic resonances which can cause structural damage and Helmholtz resonators have been used to damp these vibrations. I would imagine they can be used to make your exhaust sound suitably rorty but these aren't M3 engines for wanker stockbrokers. I supposed they could have a scavenging effect as well. I doubt the accumulator idea for blown aero as i think the volume is probably too small. Then again it's all about aero nowadays isn't it.strad wrote:I'm not sure you're not onto something there. In the past many a race was ruined by a cracked exhaust.Could these chambers be used in formula 1 to prevent the exhaust from cracking due to resonance?
Been around since Noah was water skiing.n smikle wrote:Just an exploratory discussion about using closed ended resonating chambers on the exhaust. It has been applied in F1 by Ferrari in 2011 as far as I can tell. I have seen these before Many Years ago on the internet but I cannot seem to find the picture. It was done on a BMW M3 with each exhaust header runner having it's own closed end cannister.