Leptech transmission concept

[Pup]

...we are not interested in those simply wanting to 'see' the technology and how it works. Our objective is to find those interested in helping bring the technology to fruition.

So you head straight to an F1 forum. I'm going to enjoy this thread I think.

[machin]

I fail to see how a Porsche 911 can be used as a workable development test bed but perhaps you know better.

Why not? its a car, it has an engine, it needs a transmission... surely the 911 is just as good as any other car? Whilst we all know that people on this forum are not keen on "black box" marketing claims, at least this guy is pushing ahead and getting a demonstrator built...

Iain, I assume that demonstrator will be made available to the press for back to back testing with a standard 911?

I wish you luck with this project.

[autogyro]

Why not? its a car, it has an engine, it needs a transmission... surely the 911 is just as good as any other car? Whilst we all know that people on this forum are not keen on "black box" marketing claims, at least this guy is pushing ahead and getting a demonstrator built...

Iain, I assume that demonstrator will be made available to the press for back to back testing with a standard 911?

I wish you luck with this project.

Indeed Machin the 911 is a car but with a reversed transaxle.
F1 stopped using transaxles decades ago let alone one that is in effect upsidedown.
Few road cars use the layout.
Working on such a powerflow design for bench testing is not impossible but it does result in a number of costly problems that do not exist in a wiser choice of layout.
One is the problem associated with coupling a dynomometer or an 'under load' shift tester of any type.
Such 'bench' testing is essential for any proper transmission development other than for the well established and done to death stepped layshaft designs. (seperate shift mechanism tests usualy suffice for these, everybody knows the physics).
We did develop a hub dyno for the purpose, which McLaren looked at when they were developing the SLR for Merc.
Gordon Muray liked the idea when I demonstrated it for him but the SLR powertrain was finalised using bench dynos and rolling roads as these were deemed to give sufficient accuracy and the powertrain was conventional in concept.
The 'hub' dyno we developed is still not widely available and would be ideal for sorting the problems associated with F1 KERS use as well as any powertrain developments. (including the 2014 F1 8 speed compound turbo powertrains).
I have suggested this to a number of teams, however the regulations and strangely (or not) their lack of money doesnt help.
They will simply bolt in the systems given to them as usual, with little if any real development done in the cars.
I believe that test equipment like out hub dyno is essential if transmission technology is ever to improve over the current ancient concepts in use. Most new ideas are still 'suck it and see' when tried in a car.

[machin]

Indeed Machin the 911 is a car but with a reversed transaxle.
F1 stopped using transaxles decades ago let alone one that is in effect upsidedown.

"Upside down"?! The only real difference is the side on which the drive pinion engages the Diff's ring gear; i.e no difference to the bit we're interested in; the selectable ratio bit. You know that, stop nit-picking.

And now you're blasting the guy for saying he's making a fully functioning prototype, as opposed to.....what??? ....whinging that the automotive industry is a closed door affair and won't look at his design based on his claims....?

So, it might end up being a load of rubbish... but at least the guy is actually doing something to try and prove its not.

[marcush.]

you will not be able to sell a concept to the automotive industry.End of story.This is no judgement on the basic validity of your concept or the cost involved to bring it to market.
It´s just because you are completely ignoring the ways how OEM manufacturers operate and liasing with Mclaren or Lotus is not Mercedes Volkswagen or Honda..This is not going to go anywhere .
The objective is to find the money elsewhere (government for example) and with all due respect you would not be the first to get serious money for a costly project with no positive result if you happen to have underestimated a serious challenge of your base idea.
I wouuld not fear any secrecy items ...you are dreaming if you think you can protect anything delivering a black box .You have to develop a plan how certain aspects of your concept cannot be reverse engineered if you want to protect your ideas
But then...it´s only money .If you have the urge to bring your idea to market -publish it in full NOW,before anyone has a chance to issue a patent.
at least this way the world will actually GET the benefit of your invention ...just think about it.Where is the sense of your invention buried with your remains in a few years just because you were selfish enough to keep it to yourself just for the moneys you thought you deserved for it...

[autogyro]

The 'selectable ratio bit' eh Machin.
You mean the bit on the 911 that has the shafts one above the other in layshaft form?
Another 'washing machine' for oil then?

[machin]

The 'selectable ratio bit' eh Machin.

Yes, the "selectable bit" or maybe "adjustable bit" would be a better term?!; neither of us know how Iain's transmission works. All we know is that he claims to have a new idea for this bit. We shouldn't really care if the drive pinion from this bit acts on the left side or the right side of the diff's ring gear ("up-side up", or "up-side down" in your speak); its irrelevent to his idea or the applicability to other cars.

[IanLep]

Marcush WHAT are you going on about????

Clearly your 'proposal' that I should publish it and stop being 'selfish' has to be the most naive thing I've heard. The only purpose for you mentioning that is to get me to disclose info publically which would destroy any patent application etc. Stop being silly. I'm not going to fall for any pathetic psychological codswallop attempts to get me to disclose

[IanLep]

PORSCHE 911.... why?

Simple really,

1) the Motorsport company races Porsche 911's and has extensive experience working on them,
2) The Rear Transmission compartment has bags of room for fitting/arranging our prototype Tranny,
3) Porsche Gearboxes and their Gears are well known for handling Torque.

It really doesn't matter whether our prototype fits in Transverse or inline. The obvious advantages of the Porsche are ease of fitting and plenty of experience by the race team.

As for Dynos, test rigs etc. Not needed at this stage. The most obvious test is 'Comparison' on a like for like basis. Race two identical Porsche 911s. one with standard transmission, one with our prototype and compare basic test sets such as acceleration, deceleration, Corner handling, Fuel consumption etc.

If our transmission proves correct then there should be obvious benefits for all to see.

[IanLep]

Blackbox concepts for marketing.

Nope, our approach is to prove the demonstrator vehicle in preliminary tests then race it.

The objective is rather than 'hope' that some company will see the light of day and jump on board, we intend simply proving by the old adage.... "the proof is in the pudding".

Once this is done we hope to begin leasing out transmissions to on a fit & return basis.

This way Drivers can get access to the technology on a cheaper 'rental' basis for now until the market wants to adopt.

If our technologies work then the team I'm working with believe that most drivers will bite off our hands to get to use it. After all we're not talking a few half seconds a lap improvement. Everything about the performance, efficiency etc should be transparently obvious.

One major technique is termed the "Dam Buster". As the Driver approaches a corner they can 'brake' the vehicle (without using brakes) while keeping the engine revs at the higher rate for when they want to leave the corner. This removes the age old issue of Engine & transmission Inertia losses etc. As they leave the corner they can recoup energy while rapidly accelerating.

The best part is that the Laws of Physics actually makes the Transmission want to accelerate the vehicle naturally because the technology is working in what we refer to as the "Cooperation Mode/Section" of the power cycle.

The analogy is like a Lock or Dam. As you approach the corner you fill up the dam. As you leave you control the release/flow of Power/Torque by how much energy you recoup. Sounds daft but everyone who's seen it (Ricardo, Hewland, Race team, Patent Attorneys, Race team etc) can see that it works. (It's not Perpetual motion or Energy plus type device before people question it, it's simple physics).

The beauty of this approach is that the Demonstrator Porsche should be able to decelerate more rapidly entering a corner then romp away and overtake on the way out.... assuming enough tyre grip etc

[machin]

Nope, our approach is to prove the demonstrator vehicle in preliminary tests then race it.

The objective is rather than 'hope' that some company will see the light of day and jump on board, we intend simply proving by the old adage.... "the proof is in the pudding".

Excellent stuff... when do you think the demonstrator will be ready?

[IanLep]

Hopefully within next 3-6 months.

Believe it or not it's taking a long time trying to find someone willing to manufacture items without trying to extort stupid amounts of money while also getting them to sign rigourous NDAs.

As a Systems Engineer I have a far idea regarding Bill Of Materials, Trade Costs, Machinery, Salaries, overheads etc. Yet some companies look on you as a Cash Cow. Absolutely stupid.

The obvious thing they don't think about is what happens if the technology takes off and what that means for future work.

Also got to continue generating income via Client Work for Aerospces, Avionics & Military Clients I'm afraid.

Good news however is that we may have found a UK Bearings company who can aid us in generating further space & weight savings by replacing Needle/Roller Bearings with Ceramic-based slip surfaces. It's an issue we had with generating the compact form of what we refer to as a GearDisk technology wherein we can package a 9 Ratio Transmission, with IVR (Infinitely Variable Ratio) control in a volume of around 14cm sided cube, (excluding casing but including Selector Assemblies etc.

We couldn't find Bearings (Ball, Needle or Tapered) small enough with the necessary torque Speed ratings; although it only meant increasing the volume by around 2-3cm on each side... so would still have been quite compact.

We spoke with the company 'RA Rodriguez' regarding Kaydon Bearings, but at around £3k to £5k a pop (each) for their Avionics based Slim bearing it was definitely a no-go. One Avionics Bearing they showed us was used on Typhoon - At around £50k. Seriously stupid money!

We even spoke to AP Racing to see about obtaining race-based compact Clutches. Again at over £25k it's just getting ridiculous. Even more silly was that they intimated that they probably wouldn't sell to us anyway.... because we weren't a major player in the game. Obviously don't want to sell just one or two items???