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I can't speak for Manchild but i'd rather see Williams utilise Cosworth power in '07 also not only for sentimental reasons but I wouldn't like to see Toyota get any more richer. Ultimately though it will probably come down to power.
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-
I like Cosworth and really want them to do well but I dont think they can keep with the development compared to the manufacturers. Toyota simply has to much Yen in their pockets for Cosworth to keep up.
I wonder just how much effort Cosworth can put into the '06 spec F1 V-8. If this is just a one year deal, it doesn't make sense for anyone to pour development dollars into a project that will expire at the end of the season. Not unless Cosworth can get someone else run this engine past '06, or use the technology for other applications, it's a bad business deal.
Although Williams may suffer during '06, they will be very well positioned for '07. The Toyota engine will have one year's maturity behind it, and Williams will have a lot of the tech info passed along to them. With that info, they will be able to develop their '07 spec car that will be optimized for the Toyota powerplant.
Don't get me wrong, I too have a soft spot in my heart for Cosworth. But unless I'm missing something, I really don't see a spot of sunshine for Cosworth.
If this is just a one year deal, it doesn't make sense for anyone to pour development dollars into a project that will expire at the end of the season.
True, but... if they don't put dollars into their '06 unit, why would anyone want to use '07 Cosworths?
f1.redbaron wrote:Why? What do you have against Toyota's engines? I might be a little biased, but I believe that last year they had 2nd best engines (right after Renault), and accoriding to F1racing.net, they might have the best V8's at the start of next season. So why not Toyota? IMO, it would benefit both teams - Toyota would benefit from data gathered from a good and a reliable team, not to mention the fact that Lexus brand would get some good media exposure, and Williams would benefit from Toyota's reliable engines created by people who have an endless supply of money to develop those engines.
There is a question of tradition but most of all I don’t believe that any team using engines from manufacturer that competes with complete car can do better than manufacturer’s works team. Nowadays a winning team must have engine developed together with chassis to the finest detail and that is another reason why I believe that Williams will do better with Cosworth.
BTW, I don't like idea that Toyota could/should benefit from Williams data - let them make they own car and engine. I keep my fingers crossed for Williams-Cosworth... [-o<
I think that, at this point, Toyota's revenues are all too familiar with the snowball effect. Williams/Toyota partnership will benefit Toyota in a sense that their luxury brand (Lexus) will be associated with one of the best F1 teams ever. Will that make this giant even richer? Possibly, but only on a smaller scale. It's not like they can sell millions of them every year.
Manchild,
When a manufacturer has their own team and supply engines to another team, it is inevitable that the manufacturer will benefit from it, regardless of whether the other team is any good or not. While I don't have any first hand info on this, I am pretty certain that with 4 engines for each GP, Toyota was getting some valuable data even from an under-performing team such as Jordan, compared to Honda's, Renault's, McLaren's and BMW's 2 engines.
And I don't think that saying how "Toyota should build their own engine without any help from Williams" is a fair statement. It's not like Toyota hadn't been building powerful and reliable engines all along (chassis is another story, though). Just look at their reliability this past year...
The bottom line is that unless FW wants to share data with the engine's parent company, he will have to either fork over the extra cash for his own engine development (very unlikely), or he will have to go to another supplier like Cosworth and risk getting an engine that while good, it probably won't get any better, while manufacturers' engines will, thanks to the almost endless supply of money from the parent company.
I wouldn’t like to see Toyota in cooperation with Williams at all – that was my point ( I wouldn’t mind if Toyota withdraws their works team from F1 first).
yeah.. i agree.. williams being a customer will always be given slightly inferior engines.. unless they agree to be given the same engines as toyota(like motogp where other teams gets same engine as the works team)
manchild wrote:I wouldn’t like to see Toyota in cooperation with Williams at all – that was my point ( I wouldn’t mind if Toyota withdraws their works team from F1 first).
Why would they do that? If anything, Williams will fold before Toyota does.
jaslfc wrote:yeah.. i agree.. williams being a customer will always be given slightly inferior engines.. unless they agree to be given the same engines as toyota(like motogp where other teams gets same engine as the works team)
What makes you think they won't get the same engines? I can understand the advantage of not allowing the enemy to have the exact same "weapon" as you do, but they would have to spend more money developing these slightly inferior engines for the other team. Don't forget that they plan to attach a Lexus nameplate to it. Why would they do that if they plan to make it inferior to the Toyota engine?
Many of those with big bucks and huge hopes have folded while Williams survived (Benetton, BAR, Jordan, Jaguar...). Nothing is decided yet.
Regarding engines, why would Toyota give same engines to Williams and risk to be beaten and proved incompetent to build better chassis than Williams. Toyota doesn’t have to “develop” slightly inferior engines – it is so easy to make worse engine from the one you already have.
Such engine could easily have greater reliability than the one used in works team but also inferior performance. That means that money flows in and one of the teams who are direct opposition are secured behind.
about the engines. im not saying they wil give williams inferior engines.. let me rephrase it. its like sauber with ferrari.maybe toyota will give the engines that are 1 version older. not the latest spec ones..
For williams in a financial point of view its better to be on toyota engines coz it will be cheaper for them.
What Williams needs is revival in a form of race wins. Prolonging their point-picking presence in F1 with older spec. engines can only speed up their current downfall.
