F1 suspensions

[Guest]

there such a thing as a semi-suspension?

[manchild]

there such a thing as a semi-suspension?

Depends on what you consider as second "semi" element...

[Guest]

is it possible to come up with a hybrid between no suspension at all and the stiff one in an F1 car?

[DaveKillens]

Yea, if you can be only half pregnant. You either have suspension, or none at all.

[Scuderia_Russ]

Yea, if you can be only half pregnant.

[Guest]

would a kart then have zero unsprung mass?

[RH1300S]

would a kart then have zero unsprung mass?

Fiendish question - engineers had better answer this!

My GUESS

If any structure flexes (all do to some extent), then the structure is a very limited spring. So, perhaps yes, even karts have unsprung mass.

I would imagine that it is far less critical than when you have suspension systems that are intended to allow the wheels to move relative to the chassis. So I guess that it is way down the list of priorities when thinking about designing a kart (although rotating mass of the wheels is probably much higher up ).

[on]

Hi,
I thing Lotus 88 have a two suspentions- one for chassi(stiffer) and one for bodywork(softer)-but it was strictli aerodymamic reasons.
If you want springing F1 cars you would uses a match learger tire to compens a height , whitch you would need on springing.
Solution can be only one:You must a controling a lifting in a tire eletronicly or hydraulicly.That you can find there:
viewtopic.php?t=1349

[DaveKillens]

would a kart then have zero unsprung mass?

Karts have no suspension, thus by definition, the complete vehicle is unsprung mass.

The Lotus 88 had what is basically the outer bodywork mounted to the suspension uprights, so as to direct the aero downloads directly to the wheels. Inside this outer aero shell, was a the rest of the car, suspended much softer.

[Guest]

i know the least unpsrung mass is desirable, but will zero unsprung mass have any adverse effects on handling (especially on an F1 car)?

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Not sure...but I dont know of anyway that you could possibly make a car with zero unsprung mass. Because the car needs wheels they have to be attached to the suspension so there will always be unsprung mass.

...I think lol

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Oh btw...Davekillens, just wondering, with regards to the Kart question. An inflated tyre behaved much like an undamped spring...so in theory is the Kart mostly sprung mass? The only unsprung mass would be the tyre? Or am I completely wrong on this piont?

[yzfr7]

As said before, every element has some flexibility. The trick is to define if this flexibility is considerable or not, depending of the effect on the role system. As karts has no proper suspension system, the 'small' deflection of tyre and chassis are considerable. Then, if you model the kart with the 'suspension' element being these small deflections, you can say unsprung and sprung masses.
But considering only the tyre, the unsprung mass would be only the mass of the tyre in contact with the ground, the role tyre, which would be the sprung mass with all the rest of the kart.
To finish, the tyre doens't behave exactly as an undamped spring. The air and ruber have a small amount of damping effect. It is rarely taken into consideration, as the effect it is so small in comparison to the role car dynamic.

[DaveKillens]

It is true that there is an element of flex in a kart. The tires, the chassis, and the axles all flex, and can be altered.
Additionally, the tires in an F1 car are tuned by air pressure and sidewall strength to flex, and are an integral part of the suspension tuning.
But in my previous post I was generalizing. In a kart all the components are fixed to each other, while in an F1 car, there is a specific suspension that is designed to allow movement of the wheels relative to the chassis.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

oh ok, thanx...i think i get what u mean now. So although there is strictly speaking a flex in the tyres and chassis of a kart, it is so small it can be reffered to as negligable?