no more help for the drivers

[SiLo]

They could simply stop any data being given to the driver about their team mate. That seems to be what the issue is mostly about.

But then I'm sure they would just provide the information on the screen on the wheel instead, so it's all pointless really.

i thought they werent allowed to send 'data' back to the car, just audio?

Really? I did not know that. Can anyone confirm?

[Richard]

Correct, the only comms to the car is the audio. That's why drivers get instructions to change settings, otherwise the team could tweak the settings from the computers in the garage..

[dans79]

I think this is a great Idea, as it makes the drivers more important again, and it prevents sniping performance from teammates. I think the level of data sharing/prorogation we have seen this season, particularly at Merc is getting out of hand. It used to be you're loosing time in sector 2. Now its your loosing time under breaking for turn 4, and the other car has more rear-ward bias at turn 6, and is lifting and coasting more before turn 10.

[MOWOG]

FIA to teams: "Leave them alone. They know what they're doing!"

[OppositeLock]

I like this idea. Let the drivers figure it out as they go along. Some of the pit wall messages are too precise at the moment. It seems like a competent driver just needs to be able to copy what the other driver is doing thanks to all the telemetry including braking points and tire temperatures.

[wesley123]

I think this is a great Idea, as it makes the drivers more important again,

Not sure how they aren't now?

I think the level of data sharing/prorogation we have seen this season, particularly at Merc is getting out of hand. It used to be you're loosing time in sector 2. Now its your loosing time under breaking for turn 4, and the other car has more rear-ward bias at turn 6, and is lifting and coasting more before turn 10.

Don't see how that is a problem? Do you think players just run on the field with soccer? I'm fairly sure they don't, I'm fairly sure they are all informed of weaknesses of the team and how to take advantage of that.

[marcush.]

you are kidding guys ..these drivers are supposed to be the cream of the crop and you think a simple hint by a race engineer enables them to drive quicker brake later or whatever?
Driving at the limit has nothing to do with a brakepoint at 200m or 195 m it has to do with using the car to the max without overdriving it...trying too hard..Sure it is helpful to actually know just where the missing tenth might be missing but as the drivers rarely have the same setup and differ in driving style it seems impossible to me that rosberg or Hamilton cannot judge the limit of adhesion going into a corner and Tony Rooss or Bonnington can tell them how it´s done.It just does not work like this.
A race engineer is not a driving instructor.

[Lycoming]

I like the idea, the article is right, drivers are seen as puppets because that´s what they are. Drivers are only important for some very specific situations where his car performs similar to any other, if not, it doesn´t matter if he´s Alonso/Hamilton or Chilton/Ericson....

I´d go further tough, I´d remove more driver aids, but at the wheel. No clutch adjustments, no differential settings, or even brake bias.... That would make cars a lot more difficult to drive so drivers would be a lot more important

I do not agree with the second part...every driver has his own driving style so he needs to make adjustments...

And he can do it on practice, that the purpose of FP1, 2 and 3

The whole point of having those controls on the dash is because you can't dial them in during practice, they can be adjusted whenever to account for how the car changes throughout a stint and throughout a race.

and without it is wouldn't be F1, it would be historic racing

Then it´s already historic racing, since they´re not using EBD, double diffusers are banned too as electronic suspensions, ground effect is also banned when F1 should use it....

F1 has tons of restrictions to improve the racing and provide more importance to the driver

So they should have more restrictions, such as not being allowed to adjust brake bias?

[SectorOne]

you are kidding guys ..these drivers are supposed to be the cream of the crop and you think a simple hint by a race engineer enables them to drive quicker brake later or whatever?

Yes, the radio messages over a race allows the drivers to complete the distance faster, more efficient.

They cross the line when you hear radio like this:

"take a more progressive line through turn X, yellow flags"
"take a wider entry to T5, keep the front left in check"
"front left not up to temp"
"X is braking 15m later then you into tY"
"Z is carrying more speed into the corner"

That´s what they do today the engineers, telling the driver how to drive the car when it should be that the driver drives the car, the team will simply report on failures, pit stop etc.

If the driver wants to figure out where he´s losing time put up the gap to his teammate on his display and let him figure out which sector is his weakness.


I haven´t checked myself but i´m quite certain these type of messages wasn´t very frequent during the bridgestone days where the emphasis was more on flat out racing rather then "managing everything".

[Lycoming]

Could that just be because they didn't broadcast these types of messages as often back then?

Although there will certainly be more messages related to tire management now compared to then.

[SectorOne]

Could be yes, but i also think we are in the era of information and management.
Everything from what your teammate is doing to the new brake system to fragile tires to fuel saving.


But i don´t see how they can realistically still allow radio broadcasts but ban certain things.
What´s banned will turn into code words.

It´s a tricky situation. On one hand you can ban radio altogether, cram in all the info the driver has any use for and let him deal with it.
Problem is now the drivers will spend more times sifting through what is basically an app then focus on the driving bit.

On the other hand you will have the teams telling the driver how to drive the car, how he should approach corners and whatnot.

You must always have a nice balance between driver and technology but today it´s not very balanced at all.

[marcush.]

leave me alone ,I know what I´m doing - K.R.

the engineer cannot judge the grip levels available from his stand point he sure can pass on hints were time is lost and gained vs teammmate and still it´s not a good idea to try and brake were the ohter guy does when you are not in exactly the same car ...so if your tyre is too hot or cold or for what ever reason your car has not the same performance you will simply go off..We have seen trapped marble accumulations disturbing airflows enough to rob several tenths of a second per lap of car potential ..you just cannot compensate by braking later.
Yes you can help with settings -which is one of the key objectives of the engineer- optimise with whta is available -the driver can adjust quite a few things in the cockpit and yes he can also change his driving ....the biggest help might be when you have the engineer telling you to stop pushing the car too hard..as I think that is one of the common problems a driver faces when things do not work as expected.

I think most drivers cannot cope with the messages anyway .Kimi is bored by them but most guys seem to lose concentration the moment they try to answer questions by the engineer.

[NTS]

In karting the way to find out in which corners you're not doing well is to look at the guys in front of you. I'm sure F1 drivers can do this as well without the engineer telling them to take a wider line from T6 to improve entry speed at T7.

Brake adjustment should be fine, I can do that in karting so it would be strange if F1 couldn't do it. But I agree that it makes sense to require these things to come from driver feeling and not from the pit wall.

[dans79]

Not sure how they aren't now?

Before telemetry, the only info about how the car was performing came from a stop watch and the drivers mouth during pit stops. When a driver decided to try and brake later, he didn't know if he would make it or have a shunt.

Don't see how that is a problem? Do you think players just run on the field with soccer? I'm fairly sure they don't, I'm fairly sure they are all informed of weaknesses of the team and how to take advantage of that.

knowing an opponents weakness is one thing, being told to aim 2 degrees to the right next time is something completely different.

[marcush.]

tbh ..this is not even near reality of driving at the limit.
driving quick is NOT about hitting the geometric brake point within 5cm but covering a dstance in the shortest time ! With all the variables of fuel load ,tyre wear ,degradation ,car settings ,setup choices ,driver weight ,dirty air ,a cloud passing by or a wind gust it seems complete and utter nonsense to expect a guy sitting at the pitwall staring at a wall of lead screens to be in the right position to judge grip levels available when you the driver actually experience those grip limits.. if the guy at the pitwall can tell you more about this than you can feel.. other possibilities of occupation are seriously to be considered.
If anything ,these guys know how to explore grip limits.
btw braking later and later or pulling more and more gs through corners is not necessarily making you any quicker around a track .Very often you are trying to keep the car flat (with as little sideload as possible) as much as possible