New 2015 fuel flow Directive

[Shrieker]

Quite honestly the first team to come to mind is Merc. This is definitely a very interesting topic.

[dans79]

Quite honestly the first team to come to mind is Merc. This is definitely a very interesting topic.

I agree, that's why I would like to here about some possible scenarios, not the wild speculation the thread has had so far.

[Harsha]

Im sorry im a full noob in this can any one explain clearly what is the Directive is for ?
After the Fuel flow meter the Engine can still getting more power than what it should get or any thing else?

[Sevach]

Quite honestly the first team to come to mind is Merc. This is definitely a very interesting topic.

Well if it isn't Merc that's doing this... we are so screwed.

[gruntguru]

sinple logic says its mercedes
ferrari was dominant..... suddenly testing was banned and so on
red bull was dominant... suddenly the blown diffuser was banned
see the trend?

. . . No one has even proven how a team could make something. . . .

Wrong!

Reducing the pressure in the lines will cause lighter components of the fuel to vaporise if the pressure is reduced below the vapor pressure of that component. This would potentially allow ALL THE FUEL between the flow meter and the pump at the engine to be used for a short term power boost.

I just did a quick check on the compressibility of gasoline. Its bulk modulus is 1.3 x 10^9 Pa. If you take the extreme case of an in-tank pump capable of 500 bar pressure and operating between 50 and 500 bar to compress the fuel between tank and engine, the density of that fuel will vary by a little over 3%. If the lines hold 1 litre that is a variation of 30cc. Remember, this is just the fuel compressing, flex in the lines is extra.

[Harsha]

Wrong!

Reducing the pressure in the lines will cause lighter components of the fuel to vaporise if the pressure is reduced below the vapor pressure of that component. This would potentially allow ALL THE FUEL between the flow meter and the pump at the engine to be used for a short term power boost.

I just did a quick check on the compressibility of gasoline. Its bulk modulus is 1.3 x 10^9 Pa. If you take the extreme case of an in-tank pump capable of 500 bar pressure and operating between 50 and 500 bar to compress the fuel between tank and engine, the density of that fuel will vary by a little over 3%. If the lines hold 1 litre that is a variation of 30cc. Remember, this is just the fuel compressing, flex in the lines is extra.

Based on your old calculation

If someone is scamming the rules, it would be very easy to custom make some "flexy" fuel lines.
Fuel flow is 28 g/s say 35 cc/s. One extra cc per second is a 3% power boost.

Do that means for every 1 cc they are getting 3% of Power boost, so
3% * 30 cc = 90% more boost per liter ??

[hurril]

sinple logic says its mercedes
ferrari was dominant..... suddenly testing was banned and so on
red bull was dominant... suddenly the blown diffuser was banned
see the trend?

Your list contains actual parts or features of dominant cars, the fuel thing isn't one that is known. (Were it to exist.) The split turbo on the other hand is so your logic actually forbids teams from running that.

[Abarth]

Related, Enrico Benzing's articles on FormulaPassion.it where he complains that the fuel specific weight is never published.

They wrote a letter to the FIA for clarification on February 2nd, but never got an answer:

“The engineer Enrico Benzing has written two articles published on our magazine FormulaPassion.it on the issue of fuel consumption in Formula 1. In a Formula 1 that makes of consumption one of the nodal points of its technical regulations, it’s normal that media and readers pay the utmost attention to this issue. In particular, we wonder what the reason is for the lack of official FIA communications on the value of the fuel’s specific weight, a datum that many believe essential for full transparency in applying the regulations.
In fact, the Federation has set two limitations: the first is relevant to the fuel on board: max. 100 kg. The second regards the instant consumption that cannot exceed 100 kg/hr. during a Grand Prix. A measure that the debimeter takes in liters/hr. to translate them into kg/hr., resorting to a preset conversion index based exactly on the specific weight. It is clear that any variation of such index based on the fuel used by the teams can affect, positively or negatively, the value identified by the debimeter, hence the car’s performance.
We would be grateful if you could help our readers to understand the FIA position on this issue.

These are the links to the two articles of the engineer Enrico Benzing
1
http://www.formulapassion.it/2015/01/f1 ... el-motore/
2
http://www.formulapassion.it/2015/01/f1 ... onosciuto/

[Abarth]

I just had another thought. Reducing the pressure in the lines will cause lighter components of the fuel to vaporise if the pressure is reduced below the vapor pressure of that component. This would potentially allow ALL THE FUEL between the flow meter and the pump at the engine to be used for a short term power boost.

This is intriguing.

A combination of flexing fuel lines, and playing with the pressures, could well give some remarkable "boost".

[ian_s]

I just had another thought. Reducing the pressure in the lines will cause lighter components of the fuel to vaporise if the pressure is reduced below the vapor pressure of that component. This would potentially allow ALL THE FUEL between the flow meter and the pump at the engine to be used for a short term power boost.

This is intriguing.

A combination of flexing fuel lines, and playing with the pressures, could well give some remarkable "boost".

but surely with the necessary reduction in pressure to cause vaporization, there won't be a big enough pressure gradient for the fuel to be injected?

[Crabbia]

I see this as mainly political. I can appreciate how gains could be had accumulating and having more than the allowed fuel rate at critical points in the flow but i think it is more just the FIA reacting to Newey's comments about the PU regulations.

http://www.f1technical.net/news/19970

"I think the FIA needs to be a bit more active rather than being completely passive and saying ’Well, that’s not our problem'. They can’t just give up," Newey insisted. "There has to be some governance."

The FIA are trying to show that they are governing the regulations and "being active", and that they are on top off things.

[dans79]

Wrong!

Reducing the pressure in the lines will cause lighter components of the fuel to vaporise if the pressure is reduced below the vapor pressure of that component. This would potentially allow ALL THE FUEL between the flow meter and the pump at the engine to be used for a short term power boost.

I just did a quick check on the compressibility of gasoline. Its bulk modulus is 1.3 x 10^9 Pa. If you take the extreme case of an in-tank pump capable of 500 bar pressure and operating between 50 and 500 bar to compress the fuel between tank and engine, the density of that fuel will vary by a little over 3%. If the lines hold 1 litre that is a variation of 30cc. Remember, this is just the fuel compressing, flex in the lines is extra.

All you provided was the results of a basic math calculation, that's not based on any of the real world operating parameters.

For example:
According to the specifications, the flow meter that sits between the fuel pump and the engine is only designed to operate at 20 bar, and is likely to explode above 60 bar. Thus you can't use the fuel pump to build up 500 bar of pressure.
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... eter_0.pdf
http://gillsc.com/content/datasheets/gi ... 014?v2.pdf


So the question is, without doing something blatantly illegal like using an accumulator, how would a team get a benefit.

[George-Jung]

Would it be possible to 'collect' the fuel after it passes to fuel-flow-meter.. in order to use this 'collected' fuel latter on during the race to have some sort of boost?

[hurril]

Would it be possible to 'collect' the fuel after it passes to fuel-flow-meter.. in order to use this 'collected' fuel latter on during the race to have some sort of boost?

This is what's often referred to as using an accumulator (as mentioned above) and it si forbidden. These last few posts seem to make a case for an implicit accumulator in that the fuel lines "swell" from pressure - thereby accumulating some fuel for later use.

[dans79]

another little wrinkle that would need to be dealt with.

technical regulation 5.13

All coolant pumps, oil pumps, scavenge pumps, oil/air separators, hydraulic pumps and fuel
pumps delivering more than 10bar must be mechanically driven directly from the engine
and/or MGU-K with a fixed speed ratio.