Audi has announced a new motorsport strategy, in which it has outlined the termination of its FIA WEC commitment, including the 24 Hours of Le Mans, at the end of the 2016 season. Instead Audi is taking up a factory-backed commitment in the all-electric Formula E racing series.
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Big Mangalhit wrote:I agree with those opinions, especially with that thread that states that really small engines will die after dieselgate. Maybe F1 engine is indeed the way of the future, small (1,4~1,6) turbo efficient petrol hybrids. Imagine what they could do with lower power targets and still have a 40 plus thermal efficiency. That and Bernie sidelined plus a bad PR moment for VW group may indicate the coming of Audi to F1.
The F1 power trains are designed to maximise thermal efficiency, a road car engine needs to designed to emissions standards to avoid being taxed into oblivion. I don't know what the intersection of that venn diagram looks like but it surely does not include F1 engines.
It's a great shame but as the WEC organisers put it, manufacturers come and go. Be it F1, WEC, WRC or whatever they will come and go, so we shouldn't be surprised really.
I don't believe for a second that VW will enter F1 and especially not without another manufacturer leaving first. If another manufacturer leaves first then they don't have to share so much of the F1 pie.
Big Mangalhit wrote:I agree with those opinions, especially with that thread that states that really small engines will die after dieselgate. Maybe F1 engine is indeed the way of the future, small (1,4~1,6) turbo efficient petrol hybrids. Imagine what they could do with lower power targets and still have a 40 plus thermal efficiency. That and Bernie sidelined plus a bad PR moment for VW group may indicate the coming of Audi to F1.
The F1 power trains are designed to maximise thermal efficiency, a road car engine needs to designed to emissions standards to avoid being taxed into oblivion. I don't know what the intersection of that venn diagram looks like but it surely does not include F1 engines.
But having better efficiency doesn't translate well with good emissions? When tuned for that purpose and not to produce 800hp. (honest question I am quite a noob).
Also what if we forget all this ICE optimisation and look at the auxiliaries, is it not useful in the future to harvest all the wasted energy they way f1 engines now do?
It can also be the case of what is trendy at the moment, and indeed hybrids and e-veicules seem more high tech than old diesel
LMP1 was dying and this pretty much kills it off.. The privateer LMP1 (Honda) cars were so far off the pace of PAT they weren't really there. You now have just PT and the difference in pace is quite telling (though I have missed all the races since Le Mans but I doubt it has changed).
Bring back GT1 class and the pointless homologation specials.
I've posted this a while back on the FE forum thread as well, Formula E is the thread for WEC. The marketing opportunities are so much better for brands like Mercedes, Audi, BWM, etc etc. Not so much the racing itself, but the hosting of luxury meeting opportunities right in the city centers with new and loyal customers. The total costs of a season doesn't really matter, good chance it's about the same as for WEC, but the exposure is much greater. For some brands it could even rival F1 itself (think op the cleaver move of Jaguar for instance)
I can see McLaren, BMW and Toyota/Lexus entering the scene as well, with big hospitality and roadshows behind them.
Big Mangalhit wrote:I agree with those opinions, especially with that thread that states that really small engines will die after dieselgate. Maybe F1 engine is indeed the way of the future, small (1,4~1,6) turbo efficient petrol hybrids. Imagine what they could do with lower power targets and still have a 40 plus thermal efficiency. That and Bernie sidelined plus a bad PR moment for VW group may indicate the coming of Audi to F1.
The F1 power trains are designed to maximise thermal efficiency, a road car engine needs to designed to emissions standards to avoid being taxed into oblivion. I don't know what the intersection of that venn diagram looks like but it surely does not include F1 engines.
But having better efficiency doesn't translate well with good emissions? When tuned for that purpose and not to produce 800hp. (honest question I am quite a noob).
I'm not a combustion expert but I remember some of my combustion tutors telling me that high thermal efficiencies does not necessarily lead to tight emissions control. You have to remember that in F1 the emissions are not relevant (I don't even think F1 engines run a catalytic converter). For road cars, the engine thermal efficiency is not the primary concern because they need first and foremost meet the emissions controls. For consumer the engine thermal efficiency is not really a concern, just the total package
Cold Fussion wrote:
The F1 power trains are designed to maximise thermal efficiency, a road car engine needs to designed to emissions standards to avoid being taxed into oblivion. I don't know what the intersection of that venn diagram looks like but it surely does not include F1 engines.
But having better efficiency doesn't translate well with good emissions? When tuned for that purpose and not to produce 800hp. (honest question I am quite a noob).
I'm not a combustion expert but I remember some of my combustion tutors telling me that high thermal efficiencies does not necessarily lead to tight emissions control. You have to remember that in F1 the emissions are not relevant (I don't even think F1 engines run a catalytic converter). For road cars, the engine thermal efficiency is not the primary concern because they need first and foremost meet the emissions controls. For consumer the engine thermal efficiency is not really a concern, just the total package
Thermal efficiency normally directly relates to the pollutants coming out of the back end as does high compression, you run into more exotic chemicals like cyanide etc in high efficiency engines.
Thus complicating the TOTAL/Elf Renault relationship. You can't have Exxon Mobil with that connection.
With a Renault works team, we knew Red Bull days as lead beneficiary with a Renault engine were limited.
The wheels were set in motion when they had their massive fall out last year and Red Bull will provide the massive marketing platform for Audi alongside Formula E, which will play a lead role in future engine development for F1 purposes.
Well, first of all, is Exxon Mobil connectable to Audi? Interestingly Audi runs 'Castrol EDGE' as oil brand in WEC, and that is actually the brand Mclaren is homing in for (BP).
The only Formula E connection with RedBull is they're competing for a tender to supply Formula E batteries through their technology center - that is, to ALL the teams. They
are not connected to any Formula E team whatsoever.
Also, it would be conciderably a bad idea to have RedBull do a market campaign for Audi in Formula E. Above all, Audi would do good and better to do it themselves, which
they are more than capable of. They don't need Red Bull and Red Bull doesn't need them.
Last but not least,
RedBull is recently 'partnered' with Aston Martin. I don't see how - in F1 - a collaboration is fit for a 'Aston Martin and Audi' under the same team. It would hurt Aston Martin
in being nothing but a 'attention seeking label' whilst they are powered by audi, and vise versa, it would not work for Audi. One thing to concider though is that the Aston Martin
deal looks more like something for keeping Newey aboard to have him make an amazing supercar, which then also benefits Aston Martin again, and the RB technology group/center
gains some more knowledge.
In the end, Aston Martin is powered by Mercedes AMG engines since recently. Audi and Mercedes are big 'enemies' / 'competitors' so there is no way I can see anything Audi related
to RedBull whilst Aston Martin is involved because of the Mercedes connection.
Personally, i don't see that big of a deal of a Exxon Mobil - Renault 'thing' at RedBull. Obviously Total will be out if Exxon Mobil steps in.
But Exxon Mobil has years of experience making oils, they were at Mclaren when they ran Merc engines and Honda engines. Why wouldn't they be able to work on Renault engines?
Matter of fact, I think it's something to look into, as combustion material [petrol, thus oil] makes a big difference in F1 nowadays. It would be interesting to see if Exxon Mobil might actually make a better oil for the Renault engine than Total does.
Imagine that, the 'customer' engine being better than the 'works' engine because of the oil. Not impossible.
I haven't heard too much about the outcome of the oil 'competition' at this point regarding Exxon Mobil and BP Castrol, but weren't both RedBull and Mclaren 'batteling' for BP Castrol?
I can't remember reading RedBull actually has signed a Exxon Mobil deal. Nor did i read that Exxon Mobil jumped ship from Mclaren. All i recall was Mclaren batteling RedBull for BP.
That doesn't mean Exxon is already gone or 'wanting' to leave Mclaren.
So to be honest, yes i do think you're way off.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Manoah2u wrote:
The only Formula E connection with RedBull is they're competing for a tender to supply Formula E batteries through their technology center - that is, to ALL the teams. They
are not connected to any Formula E team whatsoever.
I think you meant to say "they were competing for a tender"
about a month ago Formula E awarded the tender to McLaren Applied Technologies as the battery supplier for the 2018/19 season.
Ah ok, missed that it already passed. So then there is zero RedBull involvement in Formula E.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Big Mangalhit wrote:
But having better efficiency doesn't translate well with good emissions? When tuned for that purpose and not to produce 800hp. (honest question I am quite a noob).
I'm not a combustion expert but I remember some of my combustion tutors telling me that high thermal efficiencies does not necessarily lead to tight emissions control. You have to remember that in F1 the emissions are not relevant (I don't even think F1 engines run a catalytic converter). For road cars, the engine thermal efficiency is not the primary concern because they need first and foremost meet the emissions controls. For consumer the engine thermal efficiency is not really a concern, just the total package
Thermal efficiency normally directly relates to the pollutants coming out of the back end as does high compression, you run into more exotic chemicals like cyanide etc in high efficiency engines.
hot and lean generates NOx and a catalytic converter can't reduce NOx when there is excess oxygen in the exhaust
That is why diesels have problems with NOx emissions and now that the NOx limits for diesel are being lowered
to closer to the gasoline limits, diesels cars need stuff like ADBlue
Manoah2u, it's not a children's "connect the dots" problem that you can solve by connecting lines to various companies. There's really just no magical mystery to solve anyway. The've quit, that's that.
