Spectacle not spectacular anymore?

[strad]

As usual go on the offensive instead of a measured reasoned discussion.
Always trying to bully and belittle those that don't agree. Even down disparaging an entire nation.

[AngusF1]

Yes. Ever since the cheese tyres arrived in 2011, the drivers have not been able to drive at the traction limit during the race. When the vacuum cleaner engines arrived in 2014 things only got worse. Today, the drivers trundle about far beneath the limits of the car in order to get to the end.

This is not spectacular.

[Just_a_fan]

As usual go on the offensive instead of a measured reasoned discussion.
Always trying to bully and belittle those that don't agree. Even down disparaging an entire nation.

Bully and belittle? How? By pointing out that "the fans" are not as important as they like to think they are? That's just pointing out the reality.

Motor sport doesn't exist for "fans". It exists for the competitors to compete. That others want to watch doesn't change the reason that motor sport exists. Fans are irrelevant to the existence of motor sport.

This is true of all competiton. The competitors compete irrespective of an audience. We see people now competing in computer game competitions in front of audiences. Would those competitors stop if the "fans" weren't there? No, of course not because they were happily competing before the "show" and would still without it.

Once you realise that you're not important to F1, it's easier to accept/walk away from F1. Certainly you realise that moaning about F1 on an internet forum won't achieve a single change in F1. You might get the warm glow of having a few other people agree with you but it's still not going to do anything. And even if it was possible to change F1 by moaning on a forum, someone else would want to change it next week, and someone else the week after.

[Andres125sx]

IMHO the problem started at the point efficiency played a significant role.

Fuel efficiency, even if people think it´s new due to hybrid PUs, is not. In golden 70´s era drivers also did care about fuel efficiency, they had displays showing how many laps of fuel were remaining to know how much they could push the turbo. But lately it´s not important, it´s crucial. Add to that tyres now also need to be handled with a lot of care, and combining both now F1 has become more strategic than ever.

Today burning fuel and tires behind or in front of a faster car is no longer worth, so they don´t fight if they think they won´t be able to beat the rival. That has no solution I´m afraid. Look at fuel, they put into the car less than available frequently because they´re faster with 80kg and coasting than they are with 100kg and going flat out the whole race. Personally I find this painful, but it is what it is


About differences, I´m wondering what do you call midfield and bottom of the field. I can´t remember any other season with such a small difference between 4th team and last


Top teams will always be top teams, you´d need to force a huge budget cap to stop that, but then F1 would stop being considered the pinnacle of motorsport. You can have a technologically advanced competition, or a matched competition, but not both. F1 has always been a reference in motorsports, so I think it must keep technologically advanced. Those who do prefer a matched competition can always watch F2 or any spec series, but we can´t have it all

[FrukostScones]

only qualy trim is spectaclur to watch.

Race pace is too slow beause of fuel limit and Pirelli (or what the owners want cheese tyres, see spec book for future tyres, they want that degrading mess because they think it spices up the show).

Bring back refueling and good racing tires (Michelin, Bridgestone),

and we would see hard spectactular racing cars. Especially with those cars and PU's.

This would not mean that there will be more overtakes or closer racing between top teams or midfield, but it would be much more exciting seeing the cars fly by during the race.

When the cars where spectactluar in 2000 the racing was rather worse, midfield was outstretched more than now.

If you define spectacular racing close racing and overtakes happeing all the time, I think a spec series should be watched. For me F1 is about engineering marvel and not about BoP.

And rule changes most of the time strech the field more. The the regs should just stay stable for a loong time.

But if we really want closer racing they should get rid of that mad FW even more than 2019 Regs.

In the end the FW should be close to neutral and wing cars should brought back. Maybe with a spec floor. That would bring the field together and we should see more what OP wants. But degrading tyres should be not part of the plan, opposite to what FIA and Liberty are calling for for the future.

[alexx_88]

I think Liberty have a pretty good understanding of what the fans want and what generates revenue. Focus on the drivers and main people in the teams, close racing, dramas, overtakes, a degree of uncertainty. And they are working towards it. A nice mix would be a sprint race on Saturday with closely spec'd cars. Seeing Leclerc battle it out with Hamilton and Vettel seems to have more potential for exciting outcomes than seeing the Ferrari lap 0.2s quicker because of a floor update.

Not focusing on the fans and just saying "let's go racing, people will come" is crazy and just ignores what happens to the other hundreds of racing series that people barely watch and where 2-3 thousand euros can get your company's name plastered all across the car. Fans involvement, both at the track and watching at home generates the money that allows teams to employ hundreds of people and invest millions to go a few tenths quicker.

In the long run, I think F1 will either need to somehow outmaneuver Formula E or, more likely acquire it. Within 30-40 years all major racing will probably be 100% electric and, given the current standings, FE seems better positioned for the future.

[mclaren111]

Yes. Ever since the cheese tyres arrived in 2011, the drivers have not been able to drive at the traction limit during the race. When the vacuum cleaner engines arrived in 2014 things only got worse. Today, the drivers trundle about far beneath the limits of the car in order to get to the end.

This is not spectacular.

[Big Tea]

I think one of the biggest problems it the thinking that was brought in with the intent of increasing the entertainment for spectators.
That of the very short lap. Most laps now are between 1min and 1min 20 so the same stretch of track is covered over and over and over etc.
There is a set sequence repeated and few overtaking points. Older tracks had several different characteristic sections and what suited one car or driver did not suit the other.

Now I am not calling for a return to the old tracks, I know those days are gone.
Just saying that along with 2/3 the width of the track becoming unraceable due to tyre rubber marbles and so short a lap there is little variation from one line, and if someone is on that line there is not even a missed gear or backmarker to to put the car being followed at a disadvantage.

[kptaylor]

Well, I am certainly not for pure spec series racing coming to F1 but I would like to see a team other than the top three challenge for pole or be on the podium. Currently we have Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull then a significant gap followed by the midfield another gap followed by Williams. Pretty predictable. (And yes I know teams have dominated F1 historically.)

Also to say that F1 doesn't care about or need the fans is an interesting take. The fans pay for the series through ticket sales, merchandise purchases and advertising dollars. (In some cases through actual road car purchases.) If there were no fans then there would be no advertiser interest and then much smaller budgets. You'd also have to wonder if current team owners and constructors would really be interested outside the likes of Ferrari, McLaren and possibly Merc to help drive sales of their sports cars. F1 would then revert back to the early days of privateers, customer cars, etc.

And sorry that I'm from the US. I would think fans are fans regardless, but apparently not for some.

[strad]

Just_a_fan;
Perhaps you don't realize that your tone is to beat down or belittle anyone that doesn't agree with you.
You don't seem to brook any discussion and demand acquiescence.

[roon]

These super-fast cars are not going super-fast in just the right way in order to keep me, a super-fast car fan, amused. Also, I don't find the technology in them to be particularly interesting either, nor the technical aspects of the sporting competition, which is why I post on a technical forum. Really they're just too complicated and have too much electricity. Jeremy Clarkson doesn't like electricity, and I tend to agree with him. Mainly I just like talking about drivers and watching crashes, tbh. Miss Petrov. No one made a car fly like he did. Generally, if a car isn't within 5" of another car, then I can't be entertained. So as a compromise I sometimes walk around parking garages and marvel at all the wheel to wheel action. While not as super-fast as F1, it is a superior form of motorsport.

[NL_Fer]

Refueling or not refueling?

Not refueling is saving the tyres, to stretch the stint as much as possible. Lift&Coast to save fuel and on top we have engines that will not blow before their prescribed milage. I really miss those one race engines/gearboxes. There was always the exitement if the would last a whole race.

Refueling is making a shorter stop than the guy in front, then get out the pits first, built a gap en stay in front after the second stops. Just as boring.

[roon]

I really miss those one race engines/gearboxes. There was always the exitement if the would last a whole race.

-Fernando Alonso reflecting on his days with McLaren-Honda.

[strad]

I never liked the idea of special ultra lightweight qualifying cars but it bothers me that they make a big deal of trying to save money in one area only to spend/waste as much or more in another.
I know we can't turn back the clock or the calendar but they was a lot to be said for the ways of the past.

[Just_a_fan]

Just_a_fan;
Perhaps you don't realize that your tone is to beat down or belittle anyone that doesn't agree with you.
You don't seem to brook any discussion and demand acquiescence.

I'm sorry but we get thread after thread of just this type of thing. People moaning about how the "fans" aren't happy and "things should change". Generally, these "fans" sit at home and watch F1 on their TV. They don't go to the track, they don't actually "do" F1 to any meaningful degree. But they feel they have a right to moan. Buying the odd team t-shirt doesn't buy you a seat at the table, sorry, but it just doesn't.

If stating this reality is "beating down" then perhaps we're in to "first world problem" territory. I could start calling people "snowflake" if you like, because it feels a bit that way at times hereabouts. That is one of those insults that I believe started in the US - it's certainly not one I use because it really is belittling and an attempt to shut down the argument.

Does F1 need to change? Probably. Do "the fans" have the answers? No, not really. Or rather, they might have one small part of the answer but it is lost in a hundred and one different "F1 should do this particular thing that I like" moans.

Here's a thought: F1 gets shaken up after every rule change, generally. Perhaps F1 should just change the rules every 3 years. Doesn't matter what the rules actually are, just change them. We'll get some "entertaining racing" for a year or two until things stabilise. Then just change the rules again. That really would be just as effective as any of the "F1 should make the tyres like this, and the engines like that and bring back refuelling and it'll all be perfect" stuff that we see hereabouts on a regular basis.

The sad reality is that I don't matter to F1. You don't. The OP doesn't. None of us does really. The teams and the drivers will turn up and race because it's what they do. Sure, the money will be less if there are fewer advertisers - but then F1 started and was successful long before advertising on the cars / drivers' overalls etc happened.

It's a simple ego thing: I don't matter to them so I don't care. Try it. You might find it makes things a bit easier to handle on a race weekend.