Paul Ricard car setup thread

[Slo Poke]

I’ve just minutes ago had a thought!
Are you able to add the odd sneaky wee extra program to your computer all undetectable like?
You recently made a request I can help with if so.

[NathanOlder]

What platform do you race on? I assume you sim race.

Yes and equally important, what lap time are you hitting (and with what car model) so that one could attempt to replicate or beat it, if one were so inclined

I also appreciates your effort/initiative.

Assetto corsa regular Ferrari F1 car, I only run on race fuel full fuel load, I'm doing mid 37's with *soft tires on the regular downloadable track on race department. I'm not that fast.

Also thinking using that Devil Z car around the circuit, I noticed the correct slip angle is a few meters before the apex. Will see if it's the same with the F1 car.

I don't race too much with other people, just do the touge life every now and then under slowcrash101

I'm on Assetto Corsa competizione mostly. Never tried the regular Assetto Corsa. Would be good to find a way to get some kind of leaderboard and lap times up for an F1technical Competition Leaderboard

[godlameroso]

I'll have some free time after the triple header, I'll set up a server and just run the track before each race weekend.




Here is the setup I used to get the lap time.

Are you able to add the odd sneaky wee extra program to your computer all undetectable like?

I can't that I know of.

[godlameroso]

I have reasoning behind the setup as well. Probably not of much use kind of like these numbers because they're game values and don't translate well to real world measurments.

However all hope is not lost, much like cooking rice, the proportions are what are important, not the values themselves.

The ride height is ~35mm and ~96mm Front and rear respectively. The wing values are not in mm, or degrees, but rather game values, again the proportion is what is important. Same with the dampers.

I tried to have a relatively stiff platform but one that is soft on front heave, and the high rebound settings are to slow down the nose from pitching back up. Making it easier to keep the nose down under braking and the transition to acceleration. It's also very important to not allow the rear end to bottom out. Relatively high rear ride height along with low suspension travel and stiff dampers but not so soft spring rates, to allow more suspension independence. Notice the medium rear roll stiffness and lower front roll stiffness, but very high front wheel rate.

The medium fast bump settings are a compromise for initial turn in, while allowing the car to ride the kerbs a little bit. They are very dangerous and the slip angle has to be correct just before the apex.

The rear alignment setting works out to 1/12th of an inch of toe out. The game has nothing to do with that. I just noticed that the rear tire wake has lower pressure differential if the trailing edge gets closer to the diffuser. Partly because the air spilling off the tire has an easier time reaching the rear of the tire, and also because the airflow that is shed from the diffuser tips aligns better with the tire wake as well, further reducing the pressure differential between the front and rear of the tire.

[godlameroso]

Another point to consider, if a bit of toe out helps diffuser performance and increases rear yaw moment, then the rear bump-steer curve becomes an important aspect to tuning the aero and behavior of the car.

[Zynerji]

Another point to consider, if a bit of toe out helps diffuser performance and increases rear yaw moment, then the rear bump-steer curve becomes an important aspect to tuning the aero and behavior of the car.

I posted a few months ago about doing this in rfactor. The toe out on the rear is super helpful. I also kept high roll bar in the rear with soft corner springs as well as a stiff 3rd spring with maxed rebound.

It was like trail-brake surfing the corners, but great tyre life and Rear downforce.

[godlameroso]

Another point to consider, if a bit of toe out helps diffuser performance and increases rear yaw moment, then the rear bump-steer curve becomes an important aspect to tuning the aero and behavior of the car.

I posted a few months ago about doing this in rfactor. The toe out on the rear is super helpful. I also kept high roll bar in the rear with soft corner springs as well as a stiff 3rd spring with maxed rebound.

It was like trail-brake surfing the corners, but great tyre life and Rear downforce.

You were definitely on to something!



See here!

[Zynerji]

Another point to consider, if a bit of toe out helps diffuser performance and increases rear yaw moment, then the rear bump-steer curve becomes an important aspect to tuning the aero and behavior of the car.

I posted a few months ago about doing this in rfactor. The toe out on the rear is super helpful. I also kept high roll bar in the rear with soft corner springs as well as a stiff 3rd spring with maxed rebound.

It was like trail-brake surfing the corners, but great tyre life and Rear downforce.

You were definitely on to something!



See here!

Tesla turbine vid??

[godlameroso]

You only need to watch until 2:44 to understand what I'm getting at. Basically the tire wake and the airflow guided by the diffuser are increasing the static air pressure at the back of the tire by colliding and recirculating with each other(Normally the air pressure at the back of the tire is the lowest which is the biggest cause of turbulence and drag(since air want's to fill that void by any means necessary(and turbulence is the fastest way for air to fill a void)). This causes a resistance to flow, forcing the air around it to converge towards the low pressure at the center of the diffuser. This is why maintaining rear ride height and high roll stiffness work well, it's easier to maintain the flow convergence if the diffuser isn't rolling around or flapping about. Or maybe it can work differently depending on how the diffuser deforms under load and the bump/roll steer curve? The tire alignment and diffuser alignment can be maintained under roll with proper tuning.

Roll is beneficial in the sense that it adds to the yaw forces, but detrimental in an aero sense because the bodywork shifts in relationship to the tire. In the front this is a bit less sensitive because you have so much hardware specifically designed to manage tire wake, not so much in the rear.

Plus the front wing has a nice clean stream of air and it's nice and close to the ground it's very powerful to have a front wing that works well under yaw if you can balance it at the back.

[Zynerji]

You only need to watch until 2:44 to understand what I'm getting at. Basically the tire wake and the airflow guided by the diffuser are increasing the static air pressure at the back of the tire by colliding and recirculating with each other(Normally the air pressure at the back of the tire is the lowest which is the biggest cause of turbulence and drag(since air want's to fill that void by any means necessary(and turbulence is the fastest way for air to fill a void)). This causes a resistance to flow, forcing the air around it to converge towards the low pressure at the center of the diffuser. This is why maintaining rear ride height and high roll stiffness work well, it's easier to maintain the flow convergence if the diffuser isn't rolling around or flapping about. Or maybe it can work differently depending on how the diffuser deforms under load and the bump/roll steer curve? The tire alignment and diffuser alignment can be maintained under roll with proper tuning.

Roll is beneficial in the sense that it adds to the yaw forces, but detrimental in an aero sense because the bodywork shifts in relationship to the tire. In the front this is a bit less sensitive because you have so much hardware specifically designed to manage tire wake, not so much in the rear.

Plus the front wing has a nice clean stream of air and it's nice and close to the ground it's very powerful to have a front wing that works well under yaw if you can balance it at the back.

Good analysis. Thanks!

[godlameroso]

You only need to watch until 2:44 to understand what I'm getting at. Basically the tire wake and the airflow guided by the diffuser are increasing the static air pressure at the back of the tire by colliding and recirculating with each other(Normally the air pressure at the back of the tire is the lowest which is the biggest cause of turbulence and drag(since air want's to fill that void by any means necessary(and turbulence is the fastest way for air to fill a void)). This causes a resistance to flow, forcing the air around it to converge towards the low pressure at the center of the diffuser. This is why maintaining rear ride height and high roll stiffness work well, it's easier to maintain the flow convergence if the diffuser isn't rolling around or flapping about. Or maybe it can work differently depending on how the diffuser deforms under load and the bump/roll steer curve? The tire alignment and diffuser alignment can be maintained under roll with proper tuning.

Roll is beneficial in the sense that it adds to the yaw forces, but detrimental in an aero sense because the bodywork shifts in relationship to the tire. In the front this is a bit less sensitive because you have so much hardware specifically designed to manage tire wake, not so much in the rear.

Plus the front wing has a nice clean stream of air and it's nice and close to the ground it's very powerful to have a front wing that works well under yaw if you can balance it at the back.

Good analysis. Thanks!

Let's take a look. Since the tire is moving up and away from the diffuser trailing edge, the spot under and behind the tire is low pressure, if you fill that low pressure it will stop the front air spilling off the tire from wanting to go there, instead it will go towards the diffuser central section. Look at how intelligent the RBR people are making that section so thin.

The diffuser's job is to slow down the air and raise the static pressure in the volume behind. The very fast high speed air that is under the car slows down and creates a pressure differential right where the flow speed transitions. As the Tesla valve shows, the air exiting the diffuser is divergent flow, the air going to the floor is convergent.

By using the diffuser to divert air upwards outwards etc, the pressure in the center section decreases, thus the flow entering the floor seeks to fill that space.

[Zynerji]

You only need to watch until 2:44 to understand what I'm getting at. Basically the tire wake and the airflow guided by the diffuser are increasing the static air pressure at the back of the tire by colliding and recirculating with each other(Normally the air pressure at the back of the tire is the lowest which is the biggest cause of turbulence and drag(since air want's to fill that void by any means necessary(and turbulence is the fastest way for air to fill a void)). This causes a resistance to flow, forcing the air around it to converge towards the low pressure at the center of the diffuser. This is why maintaining rear ride height and high roll stiffness work well, it's easier to maintain the flow convergence if the diffuser isn't rolling around or flapping about. Or maybe it can work differently depending on how the diffuser deforms under load and the bump/roll steer curve? The tire alignment and diffuser alignment can be maintained under roll with proper tuning.

Roll is beneficial in the sense that it adds to the yaw forces, but detrimental in an aero sense because the bodywork shifts in relationship to the tire. In the front this is a bit less sensitive because you have so much hardware specifically designed to manage tire wake, not so much in the rear.

Plus the front wing has a nice clean stream of air and it's nice and close to the ground it's very powerful to have a front wing that works well under yaw if you can balance it at the back.

Good analysis. Thanks!

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... user-1.jpg

Let's take a look. Since the tire is moving up and away from the diffuser trailing edge, the spot under and behind the tire is low pressure, if you fill that low pressure it will stop the front air spilling off the tire from wanting to go there, instead it will go towards the diffuser central section. Look at how intelligent the RBR people are making that section so thin.

The diffuser's job is to slow down the air and raise the static pressure in the volume behind. The very fast high speed air that is under the car slows down and creates a pressure differential right where the flow speed transitions. As the Tesla valve shows, the air exiting the diffuser is divergent flow, the air going to the floor is convergent.

By using the diffuser to divert air upwards outwards etc, the pressure in the center section decreases, thus the flow entering the floor seeks to fill that space.

One can only wonder what a few hours in the Williams/HAAS simulator exploring these setup choices might turn up for the tail of the field.

Sadly, if they picked up .5s, the front runners would just copy and pull back ahead...

[godlameroso]

Good analysis. Thanks!

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... user-1.jpg

Let's take a look. Since the tire is moving up and away from the diffuser trailing edge, the spot under and behind the tire is low pressure, if you fill that low pressure it will stop the front air spilling off the tire from wanting to go there, instead it will go towards the diffuser central section. Look at how intelligent the RBR people are making that section so thin.

The diffuser's job is to slow down the air and raise the static pressure in the volume behind. The very fast high speed air that is under the car slows down and creates a pressure differential right where the flow speed transitions. As the Tesla valve shows, the air exiting the diffuser is divergent flow, the air going to the floor is convergent.

By using the diffuser to divert air upwards outwards etc, the pressure in the center section decreases, thus the flow entering the floor seeks to fill that space.

One can only wonder what a few hours in the Williams/HAAS simulator exploring these setup choices might turn up for the tail of the field.

Sadly, if they picked up .5s, the front runners would just copy and pull back ahead...

I suppose it depends on how flexible the rear suspension is to allow these set up changes. Maybe some teams are forced to run toe in, or have a hard time tuning the bump steer curve because of the fixed uprights. Their hands are effectively tied. Being limited to the wishbones and tie rods, modifying these things seldom turn out well if the car doesn't have this flexibility in mind.

[Zynerji]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... user-1.jpg

Let's take a look. Since the tire is moving up and away from the diffuser trailing edge, the spot under and behind the tire is low pressure, if you fill that low pressure it will stop the front air spilling off the tire from wanting to go there, instead it will go towards the diffuser central section. Look at how intelligent the RBR people are making that section so thin.

The diffuser's job is to slow down the air and raise the static pressure in the volume behind. The very fast high speed air that is under the car slows down and creates a pressure differential right where the flow speed transitions. As the Tesla valve shows, the air exiting the diffuser is divergent flow, the air going to the floor is convergent.

By using the diffuser to divert air upwards outwards etc, the pressure in the center section decreases, thus the flow entering the floor seeks to fill that space.

One can only wonder what a few hours in the Williams/HAAS simulator exploring these setup choices might turn up for the tail of the field.

Sadly, if they picked up .5s, the front runners would just copy and pull back ahead...

I suppose it depends on how flexible the rear suspension is to allow these set up changes. Maybe some teams are forced to run toe in, or have a hard time tuning the bump steer curve because of the fixed uprights. Their hands are effectively tied. Being limited to the wishbones and tie rods, modifying these things seldom turn out well if the car doesn't have this flexibility in mind.

Sounds legit. Thanks for the viewpoint!

[godlameroso]