2023 gearing

[saviour stivala]

I grabbed full race data for all drivers from Jeddah and it would appear there have been no gearing changes over what everyone was running in the last half of 2022. In the charts below, 1st and 2nd gears are best fit to time rolling in/out of the pit lane; 3rd & 4th include a lot of longitudinal slip in the data, so I targeted somewhere near the top of the cloud (assume there will be less long slip on engine braking than on power); 5th-8th have much cleaner data.

Still appears to be the situation with 5 unique gearing sets: Ferrari, Alpine, Honda/RBPT, Mercedes (standard set shared by MB, AM, & Williams), plus McLaren doing their own thing.

Looks to be confirming my suspicion about original post being off with their analysis (f1 data analysis from twitter).

F1 data analysis information from twitter was wrong as the rules dose not allow gearing (ratios) changes. Gearbox manufacture at F1 level will really not need any changes to ratios decided upon, much more so with the present power unit formula power band then with the previous NA engine, in fact even with the previous high revving NA engine with it's narrow as a bicycle wheel rim power band the seven speeds ratios decided upon were always the best compromise and never needed changes, what everybody use to do was prepare an additional two sets of one ratio up and one ratio down bevel gears between gearbox and diff for use as need be on different tracks.

[padajacaba]

Awesome awesomeness, thanks. So Alonso (and all Mercedes'ed cars) will struggle above 320 km/h.

Maybe, but the difference might be smaller than we'd think. With these ratios, at 340km/h, Mercs will be at about 12,600rpm and Red Bulls at 12,100rpm. If we assume they're both at the maximum negative torque gradient (-0.045Nm/rpm) by this point, it's only a deficit of about 10hp from the ICE. There could then be some ERS differences on top of that, and some real hand-wavy calculations seem to say that the extra 500rpm could net an extra 2-3kW harvest from the MGU-H, somewhat negating the difference. Lot of different factors we can't know in that last part, so it'd be hard to say a given PU will be better/worse at a given speed from the gear ratios alone.

[hollus]

Gearbox from another Competitor as a TRC, the gear
ratios used must be the same between those two Competitors.

Hmmm, this is new in the regulations, isn’t it? I don’t think this was there a few years ago.
And I have one big question: WHY???!!!

Parity and all that, sure, but to me, this reads like Mercedes sending a nice email to, say, Williams, telling them that they have decided that their top speed in 2033 is going to be 233 km/h. Which might fit the Mercedes well, but less so the Williams.
Why I think this is the case is linked to the post above:

With these ratios, at 340km/h, Mercs will be at about 12,600rpm and Red Bulls at 12,100rpm

I agree with the small HP difference, but does it matter? When was the last time we say a car actually hit 12500rpm? I might be wrong, but I think a software limiter will kick in to prevent that as it would reduce engine life, in which case, that limiter / 8th gear combo has set the effective top speed.
Happy to be proven wrong, though.

[AR3-GP]

Gearbox from another Competitor as a TRC, the gear
ratios used must be the same between those two Competitors.

Hmmm, this is new in the regulations, isn’t it? I don’t think this was there a few years ago.
And I have one big question: WHY???!!!

Parity and all that, sure, but to me, this reads like Mercedes sending a nice email to, say, Williams, telling them that they have decided that their top speed in 2033 is going to be 233 km/h. Which might fit the Mercedes well, but less so the Williams.
Why I think this is the case is linked to the post above:

With these ratios, at 340km/h, Mercs will be at about 12,600rpm and Red Bulls at 12,100rpm

I agree with the small HP difference, but does it matter? When was the last time we say a car actually hit 12500rpm? I might be wrong, but I think a software limiter will kick in to prevent that as it would reduce engine life, in which case, that limiter / 8th gear combo has set the effective top speed.
Happy to be proven wrong, though.

Williams have the opportunity to manufacture their own gearbox with their own gear ratios if they are not happy with the spec Mercedes components. This is what Mclaren have done.

[saviour stivala]

"Williams manufacture their own gearbox" Some years back Williams were regarded as the top experts of formula one gearbox manufacturers.

[hollus]

Awesome awesomeness, thanks. So Alonso (and all Mercedes'ed cars) will struggle above 320 km/h.

I agree with the small HP difference, but does it matter? When was the last time we saw a car actually hit 12500rpm? I might be wrong, but I think a software limiter will kick in to prevent that as it would reduce engine life, in which case, that limiter / 8th gear combo has set the effective top speed.
Happy to be proven wrong, though.

Well, that theory died a brutal death in Miami, lap 47, at the hands of Stroll:



Telemetry from F1tempo. The white line highlights the max RPM, measured at 250 km/h. He is a fraction later shown at 251 km/h, but with very slightly less RPM, signal filters or noise. So, yeah, 12845 RPM and all fine.

By the way, it was a single slipstream and he completed the pass, but a wall of 3 other cars was 50 meters further up the road.

[mrluke]

Awesome awesomeness, thanks. So Alonso (and all Mercedes'ed cars) will struggle above 320 km/h.

Maybe, but the difference might be smaller than we'd think. With these ratios, at 340km/h, Mercs will be at about 12,600rpm and Red Bulls at 12,100rpm. If we assume they're both at the maximum negative torque gradient (-0.045Nm/rpm) by this point, it's only a deficit of about 10hp from the ICE. There could then be some ERS differences on top of that, and some real hand-wavy calculations seem to say that the extra 500rpm could net an extra 2-3kW harvest from the MGU-H, somewhat negating the difference. Lot of different factors we can't know in that last part, so it'd be hard to say a given PU will be better/worse at a given speed from the gear ratios alone.

The difference in expected top speed is more likely to be from aero than engine power.

[saviour stivala]

''The difference in excepted top speed is more likely to be aero than engine power''. Agree. The RBR car has been flattering the Honda power unit. Jost look were the same power unit stands with STR.

[Just_a_fan]

Awesome awesomeness, thanks. So Alonso (and all Mercedes'ed cars) will struggle above 320 km/h.

Maybe, but the difference might be smaller than we'd think. With these ratios, at 340km/h, Mercs will be at about 12,600rpm and Red Bulls at 12,100rpm. If we assume they're both at the maximum negative torque gradient (-0.045Nm/rpm) by this point, it's only a deficit of about 10hp from the ICE. There could then be some ERS differences on top of that, and some real hand-wavy calculations seem to say that the extra 500rpm could net an extra 2-3kW harvest from the MGU-H, somewhat negating the difference. Lot of different factors we can't know in that last part, so it'd be hard to say a given PU will be better/worse at a given speed from the gear ratios alone.

The difference in expected top speed is more likely to be from aero than engine power.

Power and drag have the same relationship to velocity so either will have the same effect as the other.

P(absorbed by drag) = 0.5.Cd.rho.A.v^3

[organic]

Power and drag have the same relationship to velocity so either will have the same effect as the other.

P(absorbed by drag) = 0.5.Cd.rho.A.v^3

Right but we're talking about a large km/h difference that could not be explained by a few horsepower difference, whilst we know from anecdotes and from what teams have said that the power units are roughly on equal terms..

Hence if it's not the power unit making such a large difference then it's most likely the other large differentiator in straight-line performance - aero/drag

[Rodak]

Reading the rules (required same ratios if purchasing a gearbox) leaves open changing the differential ratio, which would change all the final drive ratios.

[saviour stivala]

Reading the rules (required same ratios if purchasing a gearbox) leaves open changing the differential ratio, which would change all the final drive ratios.

It does not leave open changing the differential ratio. The homologation imposed on the components within the gearbox cassette itself includes those components involved in the transmission of torque between gearbox and drive shafts. Having clarified the above, while changing differential ratio (final drive) will either lower or up all ratios before it, it was never the preferred practice of changing ratios in F1 while gear ratios were allowed to be changed, The preferred practice of upping or downing gearbox ratios in F1 was by changing the set of 2 bevel gear ratio between gearbox and differential (final drive).

[Tommy Cookers]

Reading the rules (required same ratios if purchasing a gearbox) leaves open changing the differential ratio, which would change all the final drive ratios.

isn't that exactly what's not allowed any more ?
(so the 8 speed box and the final drive gears are now treated as a sealed unit)

so isn't the drivers gear-shifter eg 1 - 7 or 2 - 8 now the only means of altering the ratio ?

wasn't the last ever chance otherwise the one adjustment allowed within one year of the last car design rules change ?

[saviour stivala]

Yes just one change/upgrade for any one of the seasons up to 2025.

[Rodak]

Reading the rules (required same ratios if purchasing a gearbox) leaves open changing the differential ratio, which would change all the final drive ratios.

isn't that exactly what's not allowed any more ?
(so the 8 speed box and the final drive gears are now treated as a sealed unit)

so isn't the drivers gear-shifter eg 1 - 7 or 2 - 8 now the only means of altering the ratio ?

wasn't the last ever chance otherwise the one adjustment allowed within one year of the last car design rules change ?

Yep, you're right, sealed unit.