2024 car comparison thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
User avatar
Blackout
1566
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

For real floating sidepods, the undercut should have a rugby ball shape or a rice grain shape in top view. (source: The Codex of Undercuts)
These aggressive undercuts have a delta or a spearhead shape. They go wider and wider towards rear wheels, kinda like older indycars.

-

And we have another car with a streamlined delta-shaped undercut + that distinctive pregnant sidepod shape. (The W15 is similar too, but more subtle).
The bottleneck that belly creates with the floor should create a low pressure area and might be a way to produce outwash without bodywork...
Image

User avatar
Vanja #66
1564
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

Blackout wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 19:48
The bottleneck that belly creates with the floor should create a low pressure area and might be a way to produce outwash without bodywork...
The throat section features pressure drop (low pressure or suction), but ahead of it (under the inlet) is an increase in pressure (high pressure, pressurisation) which is what forces front wheel wake outwards. :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

Seanspeed wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 15:10
vorticism wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 11:21
So far it’s looking like 2024 with be eighteen RB19s vs two RB20s. ...
The complaints about lack of diversity in design are valid, but this also doesn't necessitate that the field 'has' to get closer to RB. 2023 saw much of this convergence happening and it didn't create a closer championship as we all saw.
RB20 has turned out to be a relatively big evolution. If RB20 is an improvement over RB18/19, then the competitors will still be playing catch up by emulating last year's car. Otherwise, RB have shot themselves in the foot. What say you?
Seanspeed wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 15:10
Similarly, even among the runners-up/midfield, while you could argue things were quite tight when averaged out over a course of races or the season, we still saw plenty of behavioral and competitive changes from track to track, indicating there's still a good chunk going on behind performance and performance characteristics than just which general concept you're running.

Maybe this year the more solidified convergence does create a closer field, but I'll bet that like every year, there's going to be plenty of gaps between the haves and have nots, and plenty of competitive divergence in actual real world results. And it will become even harder for the armchair analysts here to be able to point to any feature and go, "That right there is what is making the difference", though no doubt there will still be plenty of speculative attempts to do so anyways. Cuz well, people have gotta talk about something, eh?
+1 Suspension, setup, and strategy are still major factors; if you nail the aero yet lack those you won't get very far. Drivetrains are roughly equal now but they too were a major factor starting in 2014.
𓄀

User avatar
JordanMugen
85
Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

vorticism wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 01:34
RB20 has turned out to be a relatively big evolution.
organic wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 14:49
Image
Is it the year of overbite v. underbite, with even Red Bull going to an overbite too (alleged)? :?:

KimiRai
KimiRai
256
Joined: 10 Aug 2022, 20:08

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

zeroday wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 17:45
Likely doesn't mean anything but....
(W14 / W15)

Image

mendis
mendis
19
Joined: 03 Jul 2022, 16:12

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

Image

Andi76
Andi76
428
Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 20:19

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

JordanMugen wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 04:43
vorticism wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 01:34
RB20 has turned out to be a relatively big evolution.
organic wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 14:49
https://i.imgur.com/oSk5uXU.jpeg
Is it the year of overbite v. underbite, with even Red Bull going to an overbite too (alleged)? :?:
The whole Overbite thing makes no sense to me. You reduce the high pressure zone under the intake which leads to the front wheel wake not being pushed outwards, at high speeds the air that the inlet can't absorb flows into the undercut and along the sides. For me this makes no sense and only has disadvantages and i do not see how someone can make this work. But its definitely interesting to see what comes out.

Farnborough
Farnborough
101
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

Andi76 wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 20:39
JordanMugen wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 04:43
vorticism wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 01:34
RB20 has turned out to be a relatively big evolution.
organic wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 14:49
https://i.imgur.com/oSk5uXU.jpeg
Is it the year of overbite v. underbite, with even Red Bull going to an overbite too (alleged)? :?:
The whole Overbite thing makes no sense to me. You reduce the high pressure zone under the intake which leads to the front wheel wake not being pushed outwards, at high speeds the air that the inlet can't absorb flows into the undercut and along the sides. For me this makes no sense and only has disadvantages and i do not see how someone can make this work. But its definitely interesting to see what comes out.
If you flip that logic (you do want to remove the effects of wheel wake, but will have consequences elsewhere from redirection of that flow) then to ACCEPT it into an air intake, thus increasing pressure of cooling duct....may offer a good route out for that volume...rather than disturbing the flow down the outside of the sidepod, also to advantage.

I liked last years RB 19 arrangement,,thought they had a logic and performance to them that gave advantages, but can see by asking that as a question (what I've written in first paragraph) then a different answer may evolve. That of taking unwanted, inner front tyre disturbance wake, and using that energy stream within the cooling duct, while taking off the table for further downstream management need.

It'll be interesting to see what they've really done when we get more informative images.

Andi76
Andi76
428
Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 20:19

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

Farnborough wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 20:56
Andi76 wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 20:39
JordanMugen wrote:
15 Feb 2024, 04:43




Is it the year of overbite v. underbite, with even Red Bull going to an overbite too (alleged)? :?:
The whole Overbite thing makes no sense to me. You reduce the high pressure zone under the intake which leads to the front wheel wake not being pushed outwards, at high speeds the air that the inlet can't absorb flows into the undercut and along the sides. For me this makes no sense and only has disadvantages and i do not see how someone can make this work. But its definitely interesting to see what comes out.
If you flip that logic (you do want to remove the effects of wheel wake, but will have consequences elsewhere from redirection of that flow) then to ACCEPT it into an air intake, thus increasing pressure of cooling duct....may offer a good route out for that volume...rather than disturbing the flow down the outside of the sidepod, also to advantage.

I liked last years RB 19 arrangement,,thought they had a logic and performance to them that gave advantages, but can see by asking that as a question (what I've written in first paragraph) then a different answer may evolve. That of taking unwanted, inner front tyre disturbance wake, and using that energy stream within the cooling duct, while taking off the table for further downstream management need.

It'll be interesting to see what they've really done when we get more informative images.
The presentation has probably answered the question of whether yes or no, which makes your theory a probability. For me, however, the problem still remains that this causes extreme damage at high speeds when the intake can no longer absorb it. I am curious to see how they have solved this problem. And whether it actually works like in the Windtunnel.

But I can tell you one more thing - the idea of letting the front wheel wake flow into the Sidepod is not new. John Barnard did the same thing on the 1996 Ferrari F310 (even if it was only "half" intentionally) albeit in a different way (with offset sidepods). Which was a completely stupid idea because it didn't work at all. The front wheel wake was bad for cooling and at high speeds... see above. The aerodynamicists told him the same thing back then and declared him crazy and still do today regarding this idea. And called it stupid because the front wheel wake is no better in the radiator area than anywhere else...Above all, you must not forget - it is chaotic, highly turbulent low pressure low energy air that you don't want in your cooling system or anywhere on or in your car if possible...I'm curious to see how this is supposed to work.

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

Kyle (ex Merc F1 aerodynamicist) has his Merc and Ferrari analysis videos up.



"In downforce we trust"

User avatar
Apexseal157
6
Joined: 12 Mar 2022, 17:36

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post


AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

Image
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

RedBull analysis now up:

"In downforce we trust"

User avatar
dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 21:03
Blackout wrote:
14 Feb 2024, 19:48
The bottleneck that belly creates with the floor should create a low pressure area and might be a way to produce outwash without bodywork...
The throat section features pressure drop (low pressure or suction), but ahead of it (under the inlet) is an increase in pressure (high pressure, pressurisation) which is what forces front wheel wake outwards. :)
The low pressure area is right above where the kick out is from the underfloor strake flow. Should aid in extraction.
Honda!

User avatar
vorticism
323
Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: 2024 car comparison thread

Post

-_-

Image
𓄀