D1GP (Drifting)

[a fan of the red team]

hey, initial d is quite cool, at least the real live movie starring some chinese guy pretend to be a jap..... the cartoon version is very boring but i have seen it and it is quite easy to understand why people will like it.... escpecially boys....

i agree, drifitng is not racing but you must admit it looked quite cool...

about the spoiler....i'm not sure if drifitng actually needed it.... maybe it is just for show to look fast, a ricer i guess...

[zac510]

Can someone take a minute of their time to explain this?

I'll give you a hint... It's nothing to do with performance.

[a fan of the red team]

true true... nothing to do with performance.... there is a video that teach you how to drift by a jap, the so called drift king... one of the technique he show is the so called e brake drift... you enter a corner... brake a little... heel and toe then downshift... turn the steering wheel towards the corner.... e brake... wait for the rear to slide then countersteer.... you then control the drift by touching the gas gently.... then countersteer again when you have gotten out of the corner.... it's really not performance but looks really cool..... as long as it is cool.... then i think people will want to be part of it.. maybe it will be just a fad.... anywhere F1 is racing and not just show and have been so the past 50 years or so.... so don't worry.... cheers....

[DaveKillens]

The key to true performance (going from point "A" to point "B" as quickly as possible) depends on the tire gripping the road surface, with minimal skidding or slipping. That is a fundamental basic of racing. Keep the rubber down and don't let it skid. A tire works good up to a certain slip angle, then goes crappy. And that's what drifting is all about, getting well past optimal slip angles, and going sideways more than forwards.
To drift properly takes a lot of practice and talent, the good ones have great abilities.
When you drift, you want to back end to be able to break out sideways easily, and a wing does the opposite. I tries to stabilize the car, and push the tire harder into the road surface.

[Tom]

The way i think of it, F1 drivers could drift easily (check out the Hakinen rally vid) but drifters can't drive F1 cars. nor can they apex corners.

[pRo]

When you drift, you want to back end to be able to break out sideways easily, and a wing does the opposite. I tries to stabilize the car, and push the tire harder into the road surface.

I'm sure you know that wings can be set up just for the looks without creating any usable downforce.

The way i think of it, F1 drivers could drift easily (check out the Hakinen rally vid) but drifters can't drive F1 cars. nor can they apex corners.

It's pretty easy to get a rallycar sideways, there's nothing much to it. I'm not saying I can be fast, but I can do that. With minimal training that is.

But keeping a rwd car sideways on tarmac isn't as easy. And by sideways I mean more sideways then the steering angle of unmodified car would ever allow. Please do try it. I'm sure most of you have access to rwd car.

Many drifters do quite good on racing as well and I bet a good drifter could easily beat most of us in racing. Actually most drifters have started as a racer, cause drifting is relatively new outside Japan. And of course, it's always easier for a good driver to control a car. A racer can drift easier than someone who can't do either and a drifter can race easier than someone who can't do either. But to say who's better on what...? I bet a racing champion wouldn't beat a drifting champion and vice versa.

It's not as easy as it looks. Really. Even if you feel like a pro drifter when you get your ass around a bit, it probably looks quite lame from outside.

[taleed]

There are some comments about spoilers being a mere add on to the look of the sport but don't you think they are also there to improve the drifter's performance around a corner by keeping them on track at high speeds?

[bhall]

A true functioning spoiler, which is not to be confused with a wing, "adds" downforce by reducing (spoiling) aerodynamic lift. Two things about a drift car make spoilers, and wings, useless: (1) from what I've seen, the cars aren't really going fast enough to need them, and (2) downforce is your enemy if you're actively trying to lose traction in the rear wheels while making a turn.

The only kind of aerodynamic device I see actually serving a non-aesthetic purpose would be a rudder such as Honda used at Bonneville. And even then, it would only serve a purpose in very high speed drift, and if the driver was worried about the car completely spinning around. Then again, at high speeds the rudder might prevent the car from drifting at all.

But basically everything on a drift car aside from the slick tires is just ornamental. And I'd rather watch figure skating. Those girls are bendy.

[taleed]

...(1) from what I've seen, the cars aren't really going fast enough to need them, and (2) downforce is your enemy if you're actively trying to lose traction in the rear wheels while making a turn.

...then I don't think you were watching D1GP racing.

[bhall]

I've seen it. I wasn't all that impressed, but that's beyond the point.

You have to remember that for aerodynamic purposes, most cars are considered to be relatively slow, even F1 cars. That's why the wings on F1 cars are so big and have such pronounced angles. To work properly as an aerodynamic device, the wing has to be bigger and have a greater angle of attack to compensate for the slower speeds in which it will be used.

I'm sure someone with a better background in aerodynamics could explain it better.

But for a wing to work at about 100 MPH, which is what I gather D1GP cars do, it would have to be a lot different than the ones they use.

[taleed]

ok...I understand what your saying.Thanks for the info and your time.

[bhall]

Not a problem. Hopefully someone will come on and give you the exact technical explanation dealing with Bernoulli's principle and all that other stuff.

[G-Rock]

Forget the wings, just get one of those jigs that car schools use to simulate difference driving conditions (ie ice) It is a frame that attaches to the bottom of your car with caster wheels underneath it. If you really want to drift, just lift the jig which puts weight on the caster wheels and off the car tires. Then you can drift all you want with ease.
You don't need wings under 100mph anyway...or wait here's an idea. Turn the wings upsidedown so they create lift and you have the same result. Less weight on your tires, less traction, more drifting potential.
Then you can go home after a satisfying day of drifting and jerk it to Fast and the Furious 4 or whatever.

[DaveKillens]

The science of drifting is all about the traction between the tire and road surface, and slip angles. In the Formula One cars we all like TO see go fast, they run radial tires with a radical compound that gives great grip up to a certain low slip angle, then drops off quickly. In other words, if you lose it, you can't get it back.
Tires can be constructed to give certain amounts of grip at certain slip angles. A good example are rally tires, which give great grip, even when at very high slip angles. So all you need to look cool in a drifter is bias-ply tires with a LOT of air pressure.

[taleed]

...they run radial tires with a radical compound that gives great grip up to a certain low slip angle, then drops off quickly. In other words, if you lose it, you can't get it back.

Firstly:...
I already understand the scientific part of drifting but what in the world (with all respect offcourse) do you mean by you can't get gain control of the grip after loosing it?

Secondly:...
...I think the only way to get get that control back is to slow down at those high speeds because if you break hard you would lock the wheels and slide even more an probably go off the road. What do you think?