Cool engine

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
SZ
SZ
0
Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: Cool engine

Post

xpensive;

Here's something that shows a little more by way of design reasoning that includes a the design and build of an engine. Whilst it's a Ph.D a quick look around shows many masters theses far more competent than that presented.

http://dtl.unimelb.edu.au:80/R/CLDGH5RR ... ndle=GUEST

FWIW any assessor that gets a thesis on their desk lacking a theory or hypothesis to be presented, tested and proven and passes it is about as awful as the work they've been asked to assess and doesn't deserve their position. Seeing worse work doesn't justify poor work.

These comments, as stated, suggest the work presents as though unfinished. If the thesis presented is a summary and the rest of the work is missing in what's presented, I'd be keen to see it.

Scotracer
Scotracer
3
Joined: 22 Apr 2008, 17:09
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK

Re: Cool engine

Post

I just had a read of the Thesis. Well...it's certainly thin. I've seen more substantial and better argued Bachelors dissertations. I noticed a significant lack of analysis of the inherent problems...just a sort of "Oh it'll be fine!" approach. Yes there is a bit of FEA but what about vibrational response?
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Cool engine

Post

Theoretically thin, agreed, why it's not xactly what I would ask for as his professor either.

But nowadays there can also be other values in a thesis, where a practical approach can have its virtues, which can be xplained by what department this work was performed within.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

SZ
SZ
0
Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: Cool engine

Post

There's not much practical merit to any thesis without validation, and there's not much merit to a design effort without detailed consideration. This thesis shows neither... and the lit review is lacking.

There's (hopefully) been a lot of interesting design challenges and (more hopefully) practical debugging and testing that'd gone on with this engine (though one wonders when someone builds a prototype 9 cylinder engine and has exactly 9 pistons on hand)... but this thesis shows none of it! Which - at the very best if this was a totally kick ass performer - is a total shame.

I can't even make out at first glance whether there's any intention in the project brief that it should ever be a running engine!

I bet the author/designer/ex-student could shed more light on matter and give us a whole host of very valid explanations about the above, which I'd welcome given that I like engines, but none of these explanations are in his thesis... which is why it's crap!

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Cool engine

Post

Your politeness and elegant ways with xpressions makes me wonder what you do for a living SZ, a diplomat perhaps?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

SZ
SZ
0
Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: Cool engine

Post

xpensive wrote:Your politeness and elegant ways with xpressions makes me wonder what you do for a living SZ, a diplomat perhaps?
No, though even diplomats make a point.

Did you read the thesis on the link I posted?

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Cool engine

Post

No surprise there, but usually people I know manages to make their point without being rude or using foul xpressions.

Dave Killens wrote recently on another thread;

"Before the internet, if you spout off spewing crap, most likely you would wind up with a fist in the mouth. But with the internet, those with poor social skills or just bad behavior have a field day. They can hide behind the anonymity of the net and become very abusive and impolite people. So whenever anything happens, droves of these kinds of people crawl out from under their rocks and throw insults and abusive allegations.
Sadly, that's just the way things are."
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

SZ
SZ
0
Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: Cool engine

Post

xpensive, you're assuming one thing and inferring another in borrowing a very eloquent post out-of-context from another member:

1
That my posts on this thesis are wholly derogatory, rude or foul, or that they're based about unfounded allegations. They're not. I've given a fair critique of the work that you don't agree with. The strongest terms I've used are 'crap' and 'awful', which are justified. In not detailing much of the work undertaken in a very broad effort the writeup really is crap, and any thesis at undergraduate, masters or doctoral level that doesn't make sincere efforts to deconstruct key phenomena starting with a rigourous literature review through subsequent section really is awful, not least because any literature review (reading the relevant work of others in your field) would at least set the bar for your own standard of work much, much higher. It doesn't get lowered automatically just because you're attempting a well-resourced project with a physically tangible build.

i've been nice about wanting to see the rest of the work, which is fair. If my bitching about the lack of detail on this build spurs the author into appearing in this thread and giving more detail than what's in his thesis about his project, it'd be very welcome by probably more than just me. Hopefully there's a (far) deeper understanding to be shared than what's been committed to print, which, for a project as broad as this is <1% of the work involved if it's been done with any serious forethought (which - given the resources involved - you'd assume to be the case).

There are many, many other theses on engine design - not all having built engines at the end of it - that are far, far better than this work at this level that serve as testament to my minor assessment and if you wasted time doing a quick search and reading them instead of waxing lyrical over a few choice words of another's opinion in a vain attempt at holier-than-thou, you might see things differently yourself.

2
You are - very incorrectly - assuming that I'd be any different in real life.

(Not that it's relevant and for what it's worth) I've assessed many thesis projects, and in some cases my language has been stronger still where students have delivered something sub-par relative to the resources at hand and their individual capabilities. I've never taken a 'fist in the mouth' from students I've come down hard on. As with any role with expectations to be met, those big enough to take the criticism on board without neatly ignoring any constructive elements (given directly or otherwise inferred) tend to deliver a better project and use the experience to go onto greater things thereafter.

Possibly you're showing me that the exceedingly small minority that insists on having an open bitch and whine about how, not what, was said go on to continue critiquing as much on other's opinions after hours under anonymous pseudonyms on internet forums...

mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
0
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America

Re: Cool engine

Post

Since this argument has nothing to do with the thread topic, how about we call it a day and get back on topic or exchange personal comments via Private Messages (PM).
Forum guide: read before posting

"You do it, then it's done." - Kimi Räikkönen

Por las buenas soy amigo, por las malas soy campeón.

SZ
SZ
0
Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

Re: Cool engine

Post

A fair point. Moving on.

xpensive, you're local, care to get in touch with the builder and find out the rest of the story? Maybe convince him to get online and fill us in?

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Cool engine

Post

As I said from the beginning, it's not my University or department by a long shot, but let me see what I can do.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

010010011010
010010011010
0
Joined: 22 Aug 2009, 02:41

Re: Cool engine

Post

Hi

Unless im very mistaken haven't these engines been around for years? Im almost certain i saw a w18 engine with 3 banks of 6 cylinders and even a 5 bank engine, although i dont know how many cylinders it had, in an aircraft museum in germany. and they had been round since world war II.

Has anyone else seen these? or am i wrong?

Giblet
Giblet
5
Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Cool engine

Post

I find this one quite interesting. It's a rotary engine, but has a sine wave type drum that acts as a cam and as the walls of the combustion chamber.

Easier to show this than explain.

Image

The RadMax™ Rotary Engine also uses the four stroke principle, however combustion chambers form between the rotor, outer housing walls, and vanes and their volumes change as the vanes move during rotation. Because the RadMax™ design has twelve vanes, the engine generates an incredible twenty-four combustion events (power strokes) per rotation, twelve on the upper side of the rotor and twelve on the lower side of the rotor.

http://www.regtech.com/
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

szlaszlo84
szlaszlo84
0
Joined: 18 Mar 2009, 20:02

Re: Cool engine

Post

Giblet wrote:I find this one quite interesting. It's a rotary engine, but has a sine wave type drum that acts as a cam and as the walls of the combustion chamber.

Easier to show this than explain.

Image

The RadMax™ Rotary Engine also uses the four stroke principle, however combustion chambers form between the rotor, outer housing walls, and vanes and their volumes change as the vanes move during rotation. Because the RadMax™ design has twelve vanes, the engine generates an incredible twenty-four combustion events (power strokes) per rotation, twelve on the upper side of the rotor and twelve on the lower side of the rotor.

http://www.regtech.com/

Nice idea but I wonder about the wear on the top and bottom of the pins. I think the friction within the engine must be huge. I guess it is a bit like the wear problems of the regular rotary engines but there is much more points of contact.

010010011010
010010011010
0
Joined: 22 Aug 2009, 02:41

Re: Cool engine

Post

Cool stuff, I envy him but it´s way too complicated... Anyway, talkin of cool engines, have you guys seen the EcoMotors new oposed cylinder engine? I really see potential in it, it´s sooo much simpler than this beast http://www.ecomotors.com/technology
Ive seen a much more impressive version of this engine made by some engineer, its an 18cylinder tripple opposed v engines. basically its 3 v12s head to head.

Check it out... http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... e=12&pp=15

oh and by the way this thread is full of pictures mechanics. mainly engines but theres a few watches in there too.