No Honda money for Brawn GP

[djos]

I read somewhere that because Honda left, they loose the money. BGP entered as a new team, so they don't have right to any money. However, FOTA agreed that BGP should get the TV money for 2009, tho as a new team they shouldn't. Not now Flav proposed that the non-DDD 7 should get the TV money instead, to cover the cost for re-designing their cars

I completely agree with this!

[sticky667]

why should another team be forced to pay for incompetence in other technical departments? that's ridiculous!

Bernie should honor his word, otherwise he should keep his mouth closed. FOTA members who supported the move initially should also stand up to their word. Flavio is a cry baby because they are so far behind in development.

[Rob W]

..now Flav proposed that the non-DDD 7 should get the TV money instead, to cover the cost for re-designing their cars

It's incredible that Max has such a rival in Flav for the Best Brain-Farter in Motorsport award.

Flav's idea is just simply retarded. To punish the teams who have legitimately been ruled to be in the right on a technical issue is well... only someone of extreme arrogance would continue to argue the point (to paraphrase Ferrari's lawyer - who I imagine has been fired by now ).

[xpensive]

I think Briatore's comment was perhaps made in a political context, as a reminder to the head of FOTA's technical arm (Brawn), what the purpose of those new aerodynamic rules was to begin with?

What political agenda MrE is following when denying Brawn the Honda money is rather obvious to my mind, he wants to give the manufacturers a lesson in what it will cost them to leave his show.

[CHT]

Did MrE mentioned that Honda will not get their shares of money?

I am thinking if there is a back door arrangement between Brawn and Honda.

[xpensive]

I have actually entertained the idea myself, what if the entire Brawn-thing was an experiment and if it flew, which it did, Honda would be back?

A conspiracy-theory? Perhaps.

[vall]

I think Briatore's comment was perhaps made in a political context, as a reminder to the head of FOTA's technical arm (Brawn), what the purpose of those new aerodynamic rules was to begin with?

I think it was along those lines. Also, new entries are not entitled for TV money and travel support during the first 3 years.

What political agenda MrE is following when denying Brawn the Honda money is rather obvious to my mind, he wants to give the manufacturers a lesson in what it will cost them to leave his show.

I like conspiracy theories, but in this case I think this is written in Concorde or what is in force now: if you leave, no TV money

[andartop]

I have actually entertained the idea myself, what if the entire Brawn-thing was an experiment and if it flew, which it did, Honda would be back?

A conspiracy-theory? Perhaps.

Had that been the case, surely Honda could have provided at least the engines just in case their experiment succeeded?

[Chaparral]

I have actually entertained the idea myself, what if the entire Brawn-thing was an experiment and if it flew, which it did, Honda would be back?

A conspiracy-theory? Perhaps.

Hey X - its the aircraft carrier here heres my take on that theory of yours

If you remember Honda announced theyd pulled the pin back in October from memory (and that decision was final as the credit crunch bit with a vengeance there was no going back for Honda) and Honda spoke of numerous interested parties including Richards, Branson (although he was never serious) Carlos Slim and a number of others over about 8 weeks which takes you to end of December - I know it takes time to sort through whats real and whats not and remember all possible options were going via the board at Honda with huge amounts of financial data involved (ever been involved in a due diligence of a company - I have when we took over Island Records and A&M Records theres --- loads off information you have to go through which takes weeks to work out whether the operation is viable) - and remember the buyout by management wasnt top of list - that was pretty much a last option. Now to be fair Im sure Brawn and his team of people thought they had a good car on their hands but even they wouldnt know until they actually ran the car - you can simulate all you like but you dont know - ask any engineer, designer, team mgr until it hits the track it could go either way (hero or zero) and to be honest Honda had a terrible track record on investment even given it was Brawn pulling all this together - so no there was no way Honda were even going to entertain the idea of one more year - and to be honest if I was Brawn and I believed in my product and the team that had put it together over many months I wouldnt want to see it go to someone else who would in all likelihood screw it up - the man has a great track record of facilitation in putting winning teams together so good on him. Then 4 weeks later or was it 6 and Brawn/mgt team buyout announced - last minute test before Melbourne - a car design that was sweet - with probably the best engine on the grid and two good drivers the rest is history.

As for further funding beyond this year - Im not sure whats happening - Honda have basically paid for this year (instead of paying upwards of 100 mil pounds in redundancies and the face loss associated and I believed that they would receive the $90 mill owed by Ecclestone for the last 2 years which would have squared things a fair amount - but apparently not) - I hear and still hear Pepsi are in the background as the possible major sponsor - Branson as reported pays $250,000 a race a piss in the ocean and I dont believe he will be fully involved unless other things like his green fuel operation come into the mix where Brawn would be a very good marketing vehicle........anyway just some thoughts

[xpensive]

What can I say Chap, more than that I think you have made a very accurate description of the Honda and Brawn saga.

Honda being in the background is obviously wishful thinking, more than anything else, but who's gonna pay for 2010?

[Chaparral]

Honda being in the background is obviously wishful thinking, more than anything else, but who's gonna pay for 2010?

Dont know X - but as a scenario lets say Brawn went the cap way (they are going to downsize anyway they have to and Brawn has already said so) - that doesnt mean their marketing value is devalued in any way (in fact just the fact he has won 3 GPs this year gives him enormous bargaining power) - it just means their profitability goes way up - they can still demand lets say a $100 mil + from a title sponsor and others - thats a win to start with - how they work their 'unrestricted development and associated costs' under the cap regulations - well thats another story - thats the part of the proposals from Mosley I have my doubts about - I just dont see it - or even if its possible at this stage - and theres no telling what turn of events will happen over the next few days with FOTA/FIA and their meeting - we have to wait and see........

[Rob W]

...believed that they would receive the $90 mill owed by Ecclestone for the last 2 years which would have squared things a fair amount - but apparently not)

I struggle to believe that Honda wont be getting any monies owed to it - if they are indeed - or that it would have even entered any agreement which would see their previous season's earnings disappear simply because they decided to leave the sport. They simply wouldn't have missed that bit in their contract when agreeing to be part of the sport.

The comments I've seen from Bernie as of late don't mitigate his responsibility to pay the teams what they're owed if they have an agreement. I imagine one of the first things Honda did before signalling their leaving F1 was sign their agreement with Bernie - enacting the payment agreement. The business side of F1 might operate many months in arrears but it doesn't mean at all Bernie wont have to pay money he ought to. And I'm certain Honda/Brawn would have an arrangement in place already that any monies coming in this year (probably sponsors included) will offset in-part the support Honda has pledged the team for this year. Again, they wouldn't be so dim-witted to miss the chance of that happening when negotiating it all with Brawn.

That neither Brawn or Honda have said anything publicly about it means to me, as usual, it's likely just a low-on-details snippet of the actual picture.

[xpensive]

Everything you say make sense RobW, in a perfect world, but when we all are aware of the presence of human errors,
you never know really do you? Perhaps Honda's decision to leave was taken in haste, away in Japan, where the implications of the F1 team's dealings with MrM was not perfectly understood?

[Chaparral]

Rob - I like you or anyone here unless they have some divine insight (and I have some pretty solid contacts) don't know precisely what's going on - but logic say's a few thing's. Honda had a couple of agreements as I understand - one with the FIA that said they would be appearing in the 2010 championship series - however there was no penalty with the FIA to pull the pin and withdraw as they have - and thats a given. The agreement with FOM was binding I believe however - where Honda had indeed a contract to be involved in the series until 2012 and therefore draw the benefits (i.e. the income stream from TV etc for 2007/08 which amounts to around $90 mil per team or $900 mil sitting in CVC's bank). That would have offset what they are funding Brawn with this year - or so Im led to believe. OK the loss of $90 mil is big bickies in anyone's world but to Honda its small change - Ecclestone has a win - he really doesn't contractually have to give that $90 mill to Honda or anyone and ideally I agree with him - which may seem harsh but that's business. At the other end though Rob - Ecclestone can be very benevolent and could direct those funds anywhere he so desires......................

[Fil]

i wonder if Force India has any right to the ex-Honda money. they are after all now the 9th best team of the competing teams of 2008..