F1 2010: Ride height adjustments during pit stops

[Jersey Tom]

Many ways of doing it, to answer your question. Some elaborate and complicated.. some simple quick and easy, and purely mechanical.

[gambler]

another way would be to let a little gas pressure off the shocks
(having started the race with more psi than normal)
may require a little different valving. with the chassis being
in lockdown mode as theyve been im not sure its even going to be an issue.

this is not an option,as the gas pressure is not high to start with and they would not increase it as it would rob the dampers of sensivity (stickslip effects...).
a modern damper starts to move at around 20N of force and keeps moving under a load of 15N,gas pressure might be as low as 1-2bars...and you will not have a support of the chassis by the gas anyways as there is no reservoir as such.

coming back to the 2-3 mm I was referring to wheelmovement not spring/or damper movement ,and of course this reference was made from static scenario which is not
representing the whole story .As you mentioned it is very sure there is a lot of progression,by leveranles or bumprubbers or thrird springs in the system anyways to counter the increasing downforce with rising speeds so at the very end of the suspension movement(at high speed)the added fuel weight will not make a dramatic difference in ride height .

i would assume that the beginning tire pressure will be a little more.thus
raising the car slightly......i agree with you that maybe a few little adj
all around would probably solve the problem.

[WhiteBlue]

It appears from the regs that the idea is actually legal. If there is indeed a benefit expect all teams to build a similar solution.

[Ian P.]

10.2 Suspension geometry:
10.2.1 With the steering wheel fixed, the position of each wheel centre and the orientation of its rotation axis must be completely and uniquely defined by a function of its principally vertical suspension travel, save only for the effects of reasonable compliance which does not intentionally provide further degrees of freedom.
10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of the suspension system is forbidden.
10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to the suspension system while the car is in motion.
10.3 Suspension members:
10.3.1 With the exception of minimal local changes of section for the passage of hydraulic brake lines, electrical wiring and wheel tethers or the attachment of flexures, rod ends and spherical bearings, the cross-sections of each member of every suspension component, when taken normal to a straight line between the inner and outer attachment points, must :
- intersect the straight line between the inner and outer attachment points ;
- have a major axis no greater than 100mm ;
- have an aspect ratio no greater than 3.5:1 ;
- be nominally symmetrical about its major axis.
The major axis will be defined as the largest dimension of any such cross-section.
10.3.2 When assessing compliance with Article 10.3.1, suspension members having shared attachment points will be considered by a virtual dissection into discrete members.
10.3.3 No major axis of a cross section of a suspension member, when assessed in accordance with Article 10.3.1, may subtend an angle greater than 5° to the reference plane when projected onto, and normal to, a vertical plane on the centre line of the car with the car set to the nominal design ride height.
10.3.4 Non-structural parts of suspension members are considered bodywork.
10.3.5 Redundant suspension members are not permitted.

Am not convinced that an external suspension height adjustment or spring pre-load adjusting device is illegal, so long as it is operated only when the car is stationary, not by the driver (open to discussion) and by a completely manual system.
The spring mounts and any shims on the stationary end would be body work. Would this be any different than a mechanic adjusting a wing in the pits....??
I suspect we will see some pit based suspension adjustment during the tyre change stops. Need to get the job done in under 5 seconds though.

[marcush.]

refer back to my post:

a hydraulic solution a la wedge adjusters -spring preloaders -can easily perform the required task.
Advantage is it is at least repeatable and could be easily handled by a central hydraulic input when pitting.(bleed open for low ride height ,pressurize for full fuelload.) easy ,reliable not much in terms of weight .
as we now have most of the front suspension with torsion bar arrangements ,one could easily swap the manual screw type adjuster for ride height ,anchoring the end of the torsion bar to the chassis for the hydraulic piston .At the rear with the third damper horizontally arranged ,you just need a adjustable length damper featuring one end with a pistontype rodend arrangement.also easy to do.

[CMSMJ1]

how do you get around this rule then?

10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of the suspension system is forbidden.

Human powered, solar powered..etc..it has to have some inputto make the change..and so would this not rule it out?

[marcush.]

how do you get around this rule then?

10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of the suspension system is forbidden.

Human powered, solar powered..etc..it has to have some inputto make the change..and so would this not rule it out?

the system is not powered it is operated on hydraulic principles ,you could as well
use a screw type adjuster .To lower the car you need no effort apart from opening a bleed screw.To raise the car you need only to put the car on the jacks and open the bleed .

I like the idea to let the car lower itself over time through the bleed .That way around the car would start with big springpreload -full tank and lower itself throught the tiny bleed over race distance ending the race in the maximum low rideheight position.

[ringo]

For the screw adjustment idea, which is not powered by the car, but by hand drills:

If using a simple 150rpm home drill, which has enough torque, the adjustment can be made before the wheel men even take of the used wheels; with consideration for the mechanics for the adjustment.

I am thinking about a worm gear on the shaft of the third spring ( or whatever it is the teams decide to put between the pushrods) . The worm meshed to a gear machined on the shaft .This part of the shaft has a power screw. The body of the strut/shock telescopes and pushes out against the bell cranks to increase ride height.



Should be able to fit up nicely under the body work there

Edit: this may change the dynamics of the suspension.

[Jersey Tom]

how do you get around this rule then?

10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of the suspension system is forbidden.

Human powered, solar powered..etc..it has to have some inputto make the change..and so would this not rule it out?

Pretty sure human powered does not count.

Adjusting ride height isn't anything new, guys. It's just a matter of being able to do it quickly and accurately.

[marcush.]

how do you get around this rule then?

10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of the suspension system is forbidden.

Human powered, solar powered..etc..it has to have some input to make the change..and so would this not rule it out?

Pretty sure human powered does not count.

Adjusting ride height isn't anything new, guys. It's just a matter of being able to do it quickly and accurately.

tom I am just aware of this fact this is why I did not even bother to mention the possibilty of a screw type adjustment ,as it implies the problem of not
being foolproof in the context of a 5second pitstop.You need a position A-Position B solution with both ride height setting beeing safely and repeatably achievable .

coming back to the constant bleed down setup ..this bears of course a possible quirk in the 3 or four pistons not bleeding at the same rate thus changing cornerweights ....bad news.so the can only be 2 piston 1 front one rear setup so
you get only a possible change in rake over race disatance...which brings me to a
new idea .

[Fil]

coming back to the constant bleed down setup..

10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to the suspension system while the car is in motion

I know success is based on clever F1 rule interpretation, and you are interpreting "no adjustment" as a manual adjustment by the driver during motion..

But i would assume this rule was brought in to stop active suspension. Surely this would also eliminate the possibility for a progressive self-adjusting bleed setup too? It is afterall adjusting whilst the vehicle is in motion.

Also, you'd be in serious trouble if it rained during a grand prix & your ride height continued to adjust lower.. got excessive aquaplaning?

[marcush.]

coming back to the constant bleed down setup..

10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to the suspension system while the car is in motion

I know success is based on clever F1 rule interpretation, and you are interpreting "no adjustment" as a manual adjustment by the driver during motion..

But i would assume this rule was brought in to stop active suspension. Surely this would also eliminate the possibility for a progressive self-adjusting bleed setup too? It is afterall adjusting whilst the vehicle is in motion.

Also, you'd be in serious trouble if it rained during a grand prix & your ride height continued to adjust lower.. got excessive aquaplaning?

i ´d interprete this as a sag or detoriation of the car .. as it is totally passive and not adjusting to anything but versus time you could as well
interprete the fact that the car looses weight over the race distance as a active change of vehicle dynamics ...wich is also forbidden.

[Fil]

:^o haha wow that's a very loose interpretation!

you didn't work for Flav at Benetton & Renault by any chance..?

[scarbs]

Interesting thread and I hate to point this out, but I doubt any form of ride height adjustment during the race is allowed. Since active was banned, no mid race suspension adjustment has been allowed, even driver adjustable anti roll bars are banned. Also, since then wet tyres were made a larger diameter raise ride height, as ride height cannot be altered even for wet conditions.

Thus I would say that any form of adjustment howsoever made in pit stops will be illegal or a severe test of these rules.

[WhiteBlue]

Scarbs, I would not have thought that they would let the DDD pass. It was obviously so much against the spirit of the rule. I cannot see a paragraph in the tech or sporting regs which would forbid a ride height adjustment when the car is stationary during the race. You cannot obviously do something before the race or while the car is in motion. But at pit stops I do not see anything that prevents it.