Nationalism in F1

[xpensive]

If it was up to me, I'd completely ban national stuff from F1 (flags, anthems, etc.) and leave it on team insignia, logos, colors. In many cases, if not in all, almost every country is officially doing something very bad and unjust as we speak, regardless if it is to its own citizens or to citizens of some other country. I see countries only as fishy establishments who cover up their dirty work behind patriotism, and as Samuel Johnson wrote "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel".

I believe that in this brave new globalized world, nationonalistic sentiments and what passport you carry feels more and more outdated, a relic from a short European period of only two or three hundred years.

Before that, there was no Germany or Italy and Sweden was a superpower based on a leased army of central-europeans.

Today, Sweden's biggest soccer-star is a Bosniak and France's team are mostly African immigrants really.

I think what pissed me off the most with USF1, is PeeWee's shameless attempt to play the nationalistic card, which seemed to work on this forum apparently. But this is what I don't understand, I would have been just as embarassed if Keke Rosberg had claimed a Sweden GPE, waving the Blue and Yellow, and hired Alex Yoong to drive with government money.

[andartop]

It's funny how the people all around the world, and especially in the UK and US, have allowed themselves to be so grossly manipulated with the whole "PC" extravaganza: living under the constant pampering of the Nanny state of all nanny states, any sense of belonging to anything is automatically labelled discriminating, not to mention outdated, except from the sense of "patriotism" when it comes to sports, European elections or joining the armed forces! Oh, and when they seek for volunteer workers as well!

Despite all arguments though, the simple fact remains that there is a great deal of silliness in it as well, what with a team now having been established in F1 as "Force India". I mean, seriously now. The only silliest name for an F1 Team ever has to be "Super Aguri", but that only works in Greek, as it translates to "Super Cucumber".

[Fil]

I think what pissed me off the most with USF1, is PeeWee's shameless attempt to play the nationalistic card, which seemed to work on this forum apparently. But this is what I don't understand, I would have been just as embarassed if Keke Rosberg had claimed a Sweden GPE, waving the Blue and Yellow, and hired Alex Yoong to drive with government money.

For the sake of consistency, no mention of Vijay's effort?

[gibells]

I'll get on the band-wagon here a bit, only to point out why we do it. I'm a South African , naturalised British, with English/French/Dutch/Scottish roots, now living in Spain. Naturally I tend to support teams with South Africans in them like McLaren (Gordon Murray) and sort of Ferrari, but only when Rory Byrne was with them. Being left-handed I even tend to support southpaws or Goofy's when-ever I can.

I know its starting to verge on the nutty, but it's only natural to want people to do well when you share an affinity with them. So naturally, Germans want Germany to reign supreme, Brits want their teams to do well, Italians only see red, etc. etc.

Andartop pointed out what a nanny state Britain has become. So what are we going to do about this now? Make a new rule that the teams (and supporters) demographic should reflect the demographic of the population. Sound's familiar to me (Google it).

Hell man, we have enough people telling us what to do. This is F1. It's supposed to be fun. Let's support who we want, when we want, how we want.

[Chaparral]

Let's support who we want, when we want, how we want.

Gibells thats exactly correct - crikeys Im an Australian (British/Irish/Scottish background) but I support many different teams/individuals in many sports - Id be considered un-Australian for barracking for Sri Lanka and their cricket team but I do and want the Aussies beaten (too cockey) - my youngest son barracks for England/South Africa so be it. I like to see Aussies do well and followed Alan Jones through his WDC and prior to that Jack Brabham 66/67 triumphs - its just a natural thing.

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

Fellow south african on these boards! wonders never cease lol
Hoe gaan dit?

Anyhoo im a naturalised portuguese/brit. Born in south africa to a portuguese dad and Afrikaans/dutch mum. I speak 3 european languages and 2 african. So in terms of base, I'm pretty global. But as to whom I support? It has to be Mercedes-Benz.
Ever since my grandfather drove me to namibia in his W123 230E Merc I fell in love with them. All this talk of a "german superteam" is lost on me. As they are based in Northamptonshire in the UK.
Mercedes are a global entity and as such it would be far more beneficial to them to have 2 drivers of a different nationality.
I believe they chose the two best drivers available regardless of where they are from.
Without trying to stir things up, I believe the Rosberg/shumi driver combo to be the best in the pitlane(i really dont think button is all that special and Massa has a few question marks). In the end I have to say i also have real soft spot for the underdog, And Kamui Kobayashi is a man I'm praying will do well in 2010.

[gibells]

Fellow south african on these boards! wonders never cease lol
Hoe gaan dit?

Baie goed dankie. Maar ek het nie die taal vir sestien jare gepraat nie! And even then I was an Engelsman from the Last British Outpost of Natal.

About the Mercs, I think they should paint them ivory not silver, as that was by far and away the most popular colour for Mercs in Africa. By the way, it will blow your mind how popular the W123 is in Morocco. You'd think they still make them!

Anyway, what were we talking about?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

W123 are probably the hardest car ever built. it just does not break! and the ride will put a Rolls phantom to shame, I know i have been in one! courtesy of BBC

En ja ek is a porra so my eerste tall is eintlik engles!

Dunno bout ivory, In sa they were mainly green or champagne mettalic!

Just hope Mercedes can win a few GPs this year

[xpensive]

Fascinating those similarities between Flamish/Afrikaans and Swedish, must be some viking blood spilt there once.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

xpensive

Yes, Flemish is very similar to afrikaans. Its a dutch descendant language, now recognised as "african tribal language"!Afrikaners are indeed a tribe of africa.
Well spotted =D>

[autogyro]

Well what do you know.
The world is full of foreigners. 'Graham Hill'.

[xpensive]

xpensive

Yes, Flemish is very similar to afrikaans. Its a dutch descendant language, now recognised as "african tribal language"!Afrikaners are indeed a tribe of africa.
Well spotted =D>

"Hoe gaan dit?", would be "Hur går det?" in Swedish.

"Baie goed dankie.", something like "Bara gott tack."

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Perhaps I could learn swedish without too much difficulty!
Be great, cos they make lovley women in sweden!!!

[andrew]

Nationalism in F1?

I'd be snookered thanks to the lack of Scots and there are not even any Irish I can latch on to now! I'd have no one to support!

Does it really matter where someone is from? As long as they race well, they could be from the planet Zorg for all I care.

Nationalism does lead some to become misguided fanboy/girl. For example, on another F1 forum like this, there are some who think that Hamilton's lie in Austrailia was nothing he should have got away with it but I bet if it was a non British driver, the same people would be baying for blood.

But I have to say the aforementioned forum is pretty poor and doesn't really go above idle hero worship and the number of posts worth reading or discussing is minimal.

Johnson - that would be down to all the Dutch settlers in the 1700s (or was it 1800s? Then the British got there, about the time when Michael Caine was waging war on the "fousands of 'em"). But I digress.

[WhiteBlue]

National pride and self esteem and the promotion of national values, traditions and achievements is basically a good thing. Where it turns into something ugly is the point where people get unaware that other nationalities have the same natural right to also promote and enjoy their heritage and achievements. This is what we usually call nationalism. It is universally seen as a bad thing. When it comes to isms I believe that they are all pretty bad. Nationalism, racism,sexism, religious fundamentalism all share the same root. They separate humans in different categories and say that some are good and some are bad based on arbitrary group aspects. I believe that good and bad can only be based on individual decisions. That doesn't exclude that certain organizations institutionally make wrong decisions. But that is only the sum of individually made wrong decisions. Discriminating against people based on gender, race, sexual preferences, religious believes and nationality is unacceptable. Waving a flag and cheering for people you identify with is fine. Hating their opponents and denying them human rights is bad thing. I start getting alarmed when people are called with animal names like rats, apes, vultures and the like. It is usually the start of a campaign by a demagogue.