Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

[flynfrog]

at indy this year cars were running the wing shallow enough to create lift.

[horse]

^ I'm not sure that the above profile would generate lift. The trailing edge is pointing up, so the resultant flow will be producing an upwash and therefore downforce. This sort of profile is kinda like an aircraft wing when it is cruising, i.e. a low lift/drag solution, but in this case low DF/drag.

[747heavy]

dunno mep - sorry
but I think horse is onto something with his explaination.
filling the bubble behind the car -> reducing drag

but it was in 2002, I got my memory a bit mixed up

I just remember that there was a pre-race test in Monza, where teams tried it, and after the test the FIA steped in and said that they don´t like it, and that teams using it during the race or qualifying would be dsq´d.

Antônio Pizzonia was disqualified from second place in Italy for running a rear wing element upside-down.

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/ ... 000_season

this was the car at the time:
http://www.f3000.com/2002/2002_infocars ... cation.pdf

[flynfrog]

^ I'm not sure that the above profile would generate lift. The trailing edge is pointing up, so the resultant flow will be producing an upwash and therefore downforce. This sort of profile is kinda like an aircraft wing when it is cruising, i.e. a low lift/drag solution, but in this case low DF/drag.

I am not sure that particular wing would but some of them were running up to -6 aoa I just grabbed a picture of an Indy wing from this year

you are also assuming the air is come at that wing normal to the horizon.

[flynfrog]

[747heavy]

Williams may also took some ideas from Indy 500 wings, and applying the concept in a more extreme fashion.

[agungn51]

You can attempt to set a land speed record anywhere you fancy. The current record was set in Black Rock Desert (Arizona), not in Bonneville (Utah). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record

The trouble is that you need enough space to speed up, hold the speed for a mile, then slow down & turn around for the return run. The current record holder needed a 13 mile track. http://www.thrustssc.com/Runs_Database/Run66.html

You also need a space that is flat, free from debris, and hard enough to support the vehicle. Dried salt lakes are ideal because they are flat having been lain by water, and water tends to be flat! The dried salt is hard, and there is no vegetation.

Conventional deserts can also be successful locations, more info here http://www.thrustssc.com/thrustssc/Loca ... tions.html

Of course Bonneville has history & tradition so they have lots of knowledge about conditions and how to create the track. I think that's why it attracts teams wanting PR.

BAR Has done it on Bonneville.

But how can it generate downforce with such wing ?

[FW17]

You can attempt to set a land speed record anywhere you fancy. The current record was set in Black Rock Desert (Arizona), not in Bonneville (Utah). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record

The trouble is that you need enough space to speed up, hold the speed for a mile, then slow down & turn around for the return run. The current record holder needed a 13 mile track. http://www.thrustssc.com/Runs_Database/Run66.html

You also need a space that is flat, free from debris, and hard enough to support the vehicle. Dried salt lakes are ideal because they are flat having been lain by water, and water tends to be flat! The dried salt is hard, and there is no vegetation.

Conventional deserts can also be successful locations, more info here http://www.thrustssc.com/thrustssc/Loca ... tions.html

Of course Bonneville has history & tradition so they have lots of knowledge about conditions and how to create the track. I think that's why it attracts teams wanting PR.

BAR Has done it on Bonneville.

But how can it generate downforce with such wing ?

Purpose of the tail is not downforce but straight line stability. A Sharkfin engine cover would have server the same purpose, but that innovation was introduced in F1 only in 2008 by Redbull

[horse]

Purpose of the tail is not downforce but straight line stability. A Sharkfin engine cover would have server the same purpose, but that innovation was introduced in F1 only in 2008 by Redbull

Indeed. And the car's underbody and tyres are providing sufficient traction to stop the rear wheels from spinning. If you're just heading in a straight line, what more do you need?

[xpensive]

True, but even at 400 km/h, or 250 mph, traction force from 1000 Hp is still more than 6600 N, or 1480 lbf.

[hollus]

Mostly spent on drag, though, and hence never transmitted through the tyres to the ground.

[xpensive]

Mostly spent on drag, though, and hence never transmitted through the tyres to the ground.

This one will go down to the records, coming from a Dane at that! Xactly where do you figure the propulsion-force to overcome the aerodynamic drag comes from, if not from the tyres to the ground?

[hollus]

I though only the difference had to be transmitted to the ground? Otherwise I don't know how a train works.
Anyways, if I am wrong I am wrong, no need to raise the tone. And I am not dane, BTW.

Edit: I see what you mean, of course I was wrong. Something learnt today.
And I still don't like your tone.

[lolzi]

Mostly spent on drag, though, and hence never transmitted through the tyres to the ground.

This one will go down to the records, coming from a Dane at that! Xactly where do you figure the propulsion-force to overcome the aerodynamic drag comes from, if not from the tyres to the ground?

What's wrong with being a Dane?

[thestig84]

BAR Has done it on Bonneville.

But how can it generate downforce with such wing ?

Purpose of the tail is not downforce but straight line stability. A Sharkfin engine cover would have server the same purpose, but that innovation was introduced in F1 only in 2008 by Redbull

The Honda rear fin moved to aid steering and stability it wasnt fixed like redbulls and todays sharkfins