[rant] Sports car debate

[strad]

Do you really think that anyone thinks of mid-engine when you mention a Watson roadster..or a Mustang/Camaro?
Do you really think people consider the Maserati's and Ferrari's of the 50s mid-engined?
Come on,,,get real.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I will match the Mustang against the Honda...oh that's right..I have and I cleaned their clock with my antique.
Don't you guys ever get tired of trying to pick the fly --- out of the pepper?

Strad, your mustang will not see an S2000 round a British race track unless you have bolted on Superchargers to your 4.4 V8(whatever size it is).
Just dont forget one thing....the S2000 packs 1998cc of 4 cylinder. Your car should destroy it, but I have seen M3's and certain exotica struggle with the S2000.

I show many friends with Subarus etc this video of a lighlty modified S2000(Exhaust by Mugen I think) and they all are gobsmacked how this little thing moves.
I dont need to tell you that this things sounds phenomanal either
If you view the whole film you see how hard that Scooby is trying to keep ahead....in vein...watch how he goes once ahead of the Scooby too....!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQWwElJ1_p8[/youtube]

[strad]

Driver always makes a difference but I have devoured a few cats in S2000's. I have two guys at work...only one will play though.
Yes I have over 400 supercharged horses in my mid-engined (hahahaha) Mustang...I wish it handled like it really was mid-engined..even after lowering etc, it still pushes at the limit.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

No replacement for displacement eh?

I prefer scalpel sharp tools to tanks, both have there plus points. As a Mercedes fan I yearn for the day when an SLK will actually mean what it stands for
Sportlich Leich Kurz/Kompakt.

Until then my eye is taken up by peachy Lotus Elise', S2000's and the odd Boxster.
What a little Elise can do to a field of Exotic is quite amusing.

[strad]

What's that supercharged Merc AMG? I forget the nomenclature,,but I really really wanted one,,til a dude a work got one, not only was the interior a let down,,Quote, I wish I had your seats, but I blew his doors off in a straight line and took a couple of favorite curves pulling away from him.
The Honda is a cute little car and I thought about one for the ol' lady,,Boxster costs way too much for something that can be eaten alive by what you'd call antique "pushrod engined" Corvette that will idle in traffic and I can give the keys to grandma to go get milk.
A Lotus would be great,,IF, they had a dealer network and service closer than California.

[Just_a_fan]

but I blew his doors off in a straight line and took a couple of favorite curves pulling away from him.

and

Boxster costs way too much for something that can be eaten alive by what you'd call antique "pushrod engined" Corvette that will idle in traffic and I can give the keys to grandma to go get milk.

Fast in a straight line is great but is quite a limited attraction - at least in parts of the world that have more corners than straights...

The Boxster isn't a "quick in a straight line" car; it's a "drive along a bucking and rolling road at speed and be immersed in the process" type of car.

There is a phrase - "X wouldn't see which way Y went on a decent road". I think your comparisons suggest a car that is fast but wouldn't stay with the opposition on a decent drivers road.

But hey, horses for courses.

The great thing about the Mustang et al is that they bring performance to the ordinary man. Something that Porsche doesn't do...

[autogyro]

I had a MK 1 frog eyed sprite, fitted wih a full race twin cam Lotus engine nearly 30 years ago, and not much touched that around corners.
400 bhp in a Mustang? must be a modern one, mine was an early one and in 1972 had 600 bhp, Jag front suspension and trick rear suspension.
I cant find anything interesting these days but might fit my SLK with an ally blocked hemi in the Summer. Should do to go and collect my old age pension and laugh at the boy racers living the illusion.

[strad]

2004 Mustang Cobra lowered with Eibach springs and rollbars;;tower strut and a few other upgrades.
You didn't read..The AMG ,,which I previously had coveted,,, came up short not only in accleration but also in handling. I was disappointed all around since I had darn near bought one.
And..lest that crack about accelleration and curves was meant about the Corvette one should look to their record and as one that had a V-8 crammed into a TR-3 I dont think that Sprite handled very well anymore.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Strad

Not much touches an AMG in straightline performance, especially a 400bhp 'Stang. I reckon its one of the fake ones you see with badges and alloys.
Because from my own experience on track days, AMG's have a notorious reptutation for being unpassable tanks.
Lightning quick down the short straight, painfully slow into a corner, but huge grunt out of it.
The impressive thing about AMG, especially their 5.5 litre supercharged and 6.2 naturally aspirated models (C E CLS and S) can do a track day, and take you and your family home in decent comfort.
0-62 times of 4.5 or lower is supercar territory. And the bread and butter C-class model(63 of course) I drove round Mercedes World track at Brooklands made me realise how good these cars are in the metal.

What rear suspension set up has your mustang got? I remember Clarkson was none too complimentary about the one he drove....but said its was good for $25k

[autogyro]

2004 Mustang Cobra lowered with Eibach springs and rollbars;;tower strut and a few other upgrades.
You didn't read..The AMG ,,which I previously had coveted,,, came up short not only in accleration but also in handling. I was disappointed all around since I had darn near bought one.
And..lest that crack about accelleration and curves was meant about the Corvette one should look to their record and as one that had a V-8 crammed into a TR-3 I dont think that Sprite handled very well anymore.

I had a company rebuilding TRs Strad 2a, 3, 3a 4, 4a 5, 5 a and 6, hated the 7 dolomite with the roof cut off.
They all had to have steel bars welded in the door jams to keep the body shape when worked on and the chassis' flexed like a rubber banana (ladder frame)lossening all the silly washer pack fixing bolts. They regularily broke instrument glass because of scuttle flex.
Sprite was way lighter and the MK 1 was a rigid little body, no comparison.
With IRS and worked front end it was billiant. The Sebring and LeMans versions proved the potential if underpowered.
Most V8s back then for road cars were too heavy for the TR if they had power.
Also the standard mounting was to far forward, just like the later Capri's I used to modify. Had to move the V6 Scorpio cosworth we fitted in one back six inches to get any kind of decent handling.
Best engine back then was the Daimler Hemi V8. That would tune better than the rover but had a cast iron block. Supercharged it was demon in a light sports car. Daimler Dart was ugly though.
My mustang was a fastback 70 351 Cleveland bored a stroked to 6.2 liters with an Ak Miller hill climb spec engine. Modified XJ6 front suspension and rear A frame with ladder bars when drag raced. LSD and various gearboxes rangeing from modified T10, Muncie, high stall C4, clutch flite c6 and even a clutchflite turbo 400. Manifold was often changed to run a stainless Holly using Methanol and Nitro.

SLK would make a great road rocket if kept light with decent suspension upgrades and brakes. The trouble is road jockies today dont know what light weight means.
Chapman was the man who brought proper performance in with light cars. Unfortunately modern Lotus are not realy aware of this and want to copy the blocks of flats that Ferrari build, it will be their downfall.

[autogyro]

AMG is for the OAP like me JET. Those who can no longer fully enjoy the lateral G.
Track days with them are a bit of a waste of time IMO.
I would sooner be hanging on smoking brakes going into a hairpin at twice the speed an AMG could do it , in my old Lotus/Sprite.
You can make a brick toilet go fast if you give it enough thrust, so what?

[strad]

You're wearing blinkers..
It was and is a real AMG.
The one with like 450 or 500 hp and I assure you I both ate it's lunch in multiple straight line accelerations and as I say maybe with someone better than my friend behind the wheel it could have done better but it couldn't keep up in 100mph sweepers either.
It was close,,but no match.
I have IRS to answer your question.
The TR3 was an early foray into drag racing so I really didn't car about handling.
And I never came on to toot my cars horn...we were talking about Front---Mid---and Rear engine definitions..and while you can get all technical with some definition, but I still don't think you'll find a "man on the street", that thinks my Mustng is mid-engined.

[Paul]

Weird spat you are having here. Many BMW 1-series owners and "men on the street" think it is front wheel drive. That doesn't make it front wheel drive and calling it front wheel drive would be wrong, don't you agree? Same here- by definition it is mid-engined, no matter what polls say.

[strad]

Whatever

[autogyro]

What is a 100 mph sweeper? Some kind of American corner?
I could drive my Lotus/Sprite on opposite lock at 100mph and my rally Escort.
Thinking about it, I could also spin the rear wheels at over 100 with my mustang.
So whats new?
AMG is a truck for OAPs.
Oh and they are all front engined rear wheel drive. It is where the engine is relative to the driver, not where the CofG is.