Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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Gerhard Berger wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:Yes but they're allowed 4 now, by virtue of each gearbox having to last 5 consecutive races. It would be more like 4 gearboxes a year

I agree though. It should be a team-based penalty, not a driver penalty.
As Martin Brundle said at Malaysia, you cannot separate the driver and the car in a team sport. A drivers performance is always linked to the car. It's no different from a driver being badly affected by the team designing a poor chassis or his engine blowing up in the race.

I think they should use a similar rule to engines though.
Don't forget they currently also get additional gear boxes for DNFs and crashes, so most drivers will use more than 4 in a season.

Ultimately the number doesn't matter so much. All the rules in F1 are currently geared around making it an endurance sport rather than a sprint, yet drivers are still punished for some arbitrary component failures but not others. Have you ever looked at the amount of stuff teams can end up changing under the parc ferme rules?

In certain circumstance, think going off on their in lap or being hit by another car, they could end up rebuilding pretty much the entire car - but if they have change the engine or gearbox they get a penalty... I know it's the same for all, and for that at least I am grateful, but it still seems somewhat unfair and imbalanced.

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cccag
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Joined: 12 Apr 2012, 15:10

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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he might still be in podium anyway ...
Hail22 wrote:Due to Hamiltons Gearbox Penalty changing my Quali setup:

1. Button
2. Alonso
3. MSC
4. Raikkonen
5. Rosberg
6. Hamilton (moved from 1st due to gear box penalty)
7. Webber
8. Vettel
9. Perez
10. Ricciardo
Art & science are disciplines that must work together hand in hand - Horacio Pagani

LionKing
LionKing
4
Joined: 26 Jun 2010, 22:03

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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Mercedes rear wing declared legal.

Hopefully the bitching ends here...

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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LionKing wrote:Mercedes rear wing declared legal.

Hopefully the bitching ends here...
It won't, but here's hoping. Expect Red Bull and the second team formally known as Lotus / Genii to make lots of noise about a protest but then not following through.

ell66
ell66
2
Joined: 30 Jun 2010, 13:05

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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Hail22 wrote:Due to Hamiltons Gearbox Penalty changing my Quali setup:

1. Button
2. Alonso
3. MSC
4. Raikkonen
5. Rosberg
6. Hamilton (moved from 1st due to gear box penalty)
7. Webber
8. Vettel
9. Perez
10. Ricciardo

not a chance in hell will alonso put it on the front row dude, have you not watched the last 2 races?

it could be anyone from a mclaren, merc, lotus or rbr on pole.

shame for lewis, luck doesnt seem to be on his side thus far this year, a podium is stil very realistic though.

LionKing
LionKing
4
Joined: 26 Jun 2010, 22:03

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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myurr wrote:
LionKing wrote:Mercedes rear wing declared legal.

Hopefully the bitching ends here...
It won't, but here's hoping. Expect Red Bull and the second team formally known as Lotus / Genii to make lots of noise about a protest but then not following through.
Lotus protested today then FIA rejected the protest and declared it legal again. Can they or someone else protest next weekend again???
Last edited by LionKing on 12 Apr 2012, 16:15, edited 2 times in total.

Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007, 01:47
Location: Canada

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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I think Lotus is still mad their front ride height was preapproved then banned. Can't blame them really.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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LionKing wrote:
myurr wrote:
LionKing wrote:Mercedes rear wing declared legal.

Hopefully the bitching ends here...
It won't, but here's hoping. Expect Red Bull and the second team formally known as Lotus / Genii to make lots of noise about a protest but then not following through.
Lotus protested today then FIA rejected the protest and declared it legal again. Can that protest next weekend again??
There's two types of protest I believe. The first, that they used today, was to protest to the stewards and ask for them to make a ruling. They can then, at set times, lodge a formal protest to the FIA and take it to the courts where the lawyers take over. When people talk about protesting it is usually that second mechanism that they're referring to but it is rather ambiguous.

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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Giblet wrote:I think Lotus is still mad their front ride height was preapproved then banned. Can't blame them really.
It does seem rather arbitrary. After all the Mercedes rear wing appears to have a cover attached to the flap that's primary purpose appears to be to cover the ducts, yet that is deemed legal.

I've called for this in the past but the FIA really should set up a formal procedure via which a team can ask for a definitive ruling on a particular device so they can get approval before they invest the time and money in developing the part. At the moment it appears they can ask Charlie and then hope that the FIA remains consistent with Charlie's initial opinion.

LionKing
LionKing
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Joined: 26 Jun 2010, 22:03

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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myurr wrote:
Giblet wrote:I think Lotus is still mad their front ride height was preapproved then banned. Can't blame them really.
It does seem rather arbitrary. After all the Mercedes rear wing appears to have a cover attached to the flap that's primary purpose appears to be to cover the ducts, yet that is deemed legal.

I've called for this in the past but the FIA really should set up a formal procedure via which a team can ask for a definitive ruling on a particular device so they can get approval before they invest the time and money in developing the part. At the moment it appears they can ask Charlie and then hope that the FIA remains consistent with Charlie's initial opinion.

It might be that teams are consulting FIA with high level concepts not the detailed designs. So final decisions are and can be given when the actual implemented devices are revealed.

Secondly other teams could present views and arguments that FIA did not consider before.

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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SiLo wrote:Yeah, real shame, as I was hoping we would just get a normal race under normal conditions. I still feel Hamilton will take pole and start 5th though.
Any news on what upgrades they are brining to China? Specific of course :)
My bet, set up 100% for the race, take 4th/5th on the hards, and start 9th/10th on the hards.

beelsebob
beelsebob
85
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

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My qually prediction, after hamilton's penalty:

1. Button
2. Schumacher
3. Rosberg
4. Vettel
5. Webber
6. Nenokxkonen
7. Alonso
8. Grosean
9. Hamilton (Having qualified 4th on Hards)

KingHamilton
KingHamilton
0
Joined: 07 Feb 2012, 12:46

Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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don`t think McLaren will sacrifice track position, so pole for hamilton for me!

stefan_
stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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Not possible. Hamilton got a 5 place grid penalty doe to a gearbox change.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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I think you still get pole position statistic. But you don't get the grid position.
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