2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Artur Craft
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Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 15:50

Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Juzh wrote:
12 May 2017, 14:55
Past few years FP2 - Q3 laptime improvement was around 2s, thus I predict a high 18 and no faster.
Thanks, was really interested in that info.

It's funny, everybody talked about how Hards would be useless and etc(not aimed at you Juzh :wink: but at Perez and Ricciardo who have more data and should have known a little better), and it's the only tyres that seemed remotely consistent.

Even the Mediums are massively degrading. People could only do 1 fast lap, then it was already 0.3-0.5s slower. Sainz was losing 1.4s on his Softs after just 6 laps and Vettel 1.1s on his Mediums, after 9.

I really don't get why people make it sound as if the current Pirellis are the most durable tyres F1 has ever had. That is so far from reality. It's like people don't remember what durable tyres really are after Pirelli entered this sport.

On 2005 Spanish GP, Fisichella made the fastest lap of the race(on over 67 laps old tyres) with a time of 1.15.641 and he was lapping at 1.16.294, on lap 28, with empty tanks before his first pit(for fuel as tyres had to last the whole race.)

On 2006 Spanish GP, Alonso started the race lapping on low 1.18s. Before his first pit, on lap 17, he was doing 1.16.8. As fuel was being burnt, all the cars would always get faster unlike on Pirelli era.

Final example, 2010 Spanish GP, Webber's only pit was on lap 17. He then returned lapping at low 1.27s. Towards the end of the race, at lap 62, he did 1.24.8 on ~35 laps old tyres.

Not even the Hard Pirelli tyre will give that sort of consistency and lap times will increase, instead of decrease, as the stints progresses.

About the race pace of the 2017 cars, Mercedes is like 1.2s faster than Red Bull and Ferrari(this one is very difficult to read anything into it because Kimi's laps were very inconsistent and Vettel was on Mediums). It really seems that Mercedes new PU(if they already used it on Friday) allowed them to stretch their legs.

I don't know where you guys got your race pace info from, but I quickly looked into FIA's .pdf for my comment. I can be wrong, though, as I didn't took much time looking into it
Last edited by Artur Craft on 12 May 2017, 17:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Vasconia
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Location: Basque Country

Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Restomaniac wrote:
12 May 2017, 17:24
Vasconia wrote:
12 May 2017, 16:52
dren wrote:
12 May 2017, 16:45
It does seem Mercedes is once again winning the development battle. We'll see tomorrow.
Ferrari is yet to bring a PU update so we will see. Commentators were saying that Ferrari was faster on the long runs so I think there still hope to see a tight battle.
No they weren't. Mercedes were faster all ways up.

The info I saw was on race sim.
Bot-Ham-Rai-Vet/Ves(Pretty much identical averages).
Ooooops, this time I can blame the Spanish commentators. I will take a look to compare the date between both teams.

If this is true we have no race this Sunday, the gave is over guys.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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It's not Hamilton was the only one doing consecutive 25's
Saishū kōnā

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Image

Time improvements between FP1 and FP2 for all the teams. Everyone set their best times in FP1 on Mediums and in FP2 on Softs.
- There is around 5 to 6 tenths between Medium to Softs.
- There was also the fact that the track got rubbered in for FP2 from the FP1 runs.
- Based on these factors, it looks as if Mercedes did not gained anything in terms of changing the setup and their delta of improvement has come only from change in Compound and the track improvement.
- Whereas, other teams seems to have found heaps of time through changes to the setup.
- Ferrari and RB have found almost similar times.
- However, track temperatures were higher in the afternoon for FP2, than they were for FP1. So, that should adversely affect the performance by a few tenths.

So, my conclusion is, Mercedes ran the best setup available that they could from FP1, all the way to FP2 and with same power modes. They could only manage the delta improvement because of Softs and rubbered in circuit.
Other teams were running far heavier in FP1 AND/OR, did not had optimum setup for FP1 AND/OR, had tuned down their engines. That is why, the delta is much bigger. (I leave the interpretation part to whichever way you want to believe).

Long runs show a different story.
-Both Mercedes' did long runs on Softs. Mercedes of Lewis was the faster car starting with 1m25.xxx and doing similar lap times for almost 10 laps before moving towards high 1m26.xxx.
- Only Kimi did long run on Softs, while Vettel concentrated on Mediums. Kimi started with high 1m25.xxx and could only do those times for 2 laps and then moved into 1m27.xxx. Seems like pushed the softs for 2 laps and they were not good enough anymore. Vettel though, did consistent 1m27.xxx on Mediums.
- Verstappen started the long run on Softs with one single lap in 1m25.xxx and then settled between 1m27.xxx and 1m28.xxx. RB doesn't seem to be close enough to Ferrari as the quali run suggests.

Bill_Kar
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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GPR-A wrote:
12 May 2017, 21:45
text
Great analysis.I just want to add that FP2 was a lot more trickier in terms of balance,there was no constant air,just gusty winds hitting the cars unpredictably and that would almost certainly had an impact on lap times.

Treble
Treble
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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It seems that the difference between Ferrari and Mercedes is all in the third sector but honestly on the pace there is no challenge at all.. I see Merc very strong for the race.

Wass85
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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What's the predictions for the pole time? I think they are going to be disappointingly slow.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Treble wrote:
12 May 2017, 22:19
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_pCCclXYAEPMDj.jpg:large
It seems that the difference between Ferrari and Mercedes is all in the third sector but honestly on the pace there is no challenge at all.. I see Merc very strong for the race.
Hulkenberg has the second fastest time in sector 3? Wow, that Renault chassis coming along.

Dazed1
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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I tried a search here, but no help, did any driver make an effort at a quick lap on the Hard Compound?

giantfan10
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Treble wrote:
12 May 2017, 22:19
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_pCCclXYAEPMDj.jpg:large
It seems that the difference between Ferrari and Mercedes is all in the third sector but honestly on the pace there is no challenge at all.. I see Merc very strong for the race.
Heres what Hamilton and Bottas think...
Hamilton: “It’s not really changed anything, the gap looks like it’s within a tenth between us and Ferrari, which is the same as the last race, we’ve both made pretty much the identical step.

Bottas: He agreed that the “the gains are not massive”, but that it was a step in the right direction.
“Maybe our improvements are more visual than any others but I'm sure it's going to be very close again.”

Here are some words of wisdom from Ferrari's head:the question was what did he think of mercedes pace:
"I was asked the same question on Friday in Australia and the gap in FP1 was the same between us and Mercedes. And on that occasion I answered the question as I answer today. The programme for this weekend is starting from Friday, improving Saturday, and looking also for Sunday.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Natalie Pinkham is nice! :oops:
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

f1316
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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giantfan10 wrote:
13 May 2017, 07:49
Treble wrote:
12 May 2017, 22:19
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_pCCclXYAEPMDj.jpg:large
It seems that the difference between Ferrari and Mercedes is all in the third sector but honestly on the pace there is no challenge at all.. I see Merc very strong for the race.
Heres what Hamilton and Bottas think...
Hamilton: “It’s not really changed anything, the gap looks like it’s within a tenth between us and Ferrari, which is the same as the last race, we’ve both made pretty much the identical step.

Bottas: He agreed that the “the gains are not massive”, but that it was a step in the right direction.
“Maybe our improvements are more visual than any others but I'm sure it's going to be very close again.”

Here are some words of wisdom from Ferrari's head:the question was what did he think of mercedes pace:
"I was asked the same question on Friday in Australia and the gap in FP1 was the same between us and Mercedes. And on that occasion I answered the question as I answer today. The programme for this weekend is starting from Friday, improving Saturday, and looking also for Sunday.
And that's actually borne out by the sector times: if you put the best sectors together for either car (rather than either driver) there's only about a tenth in Mercedes' favour.

Kimi doesn't lose much in the 3rd sector for example, so whilst he could have a different set up, I'd suggest it's more attributable to Seb's comments about not being the "captain" (likely due to winds - we saw he did two flying laps on the soft, probably because a gust compromised the first, but optimum grip gone by then).

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Schuttelberg wrote:
13 May 2017, 08:53
Natalie Pinkham is nice! :oops:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo
#AeroFrodo

danielk
danielk
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Fp2 what appears to be start of race sims
Vet

17 1:27.006
18 1:27.214
19 1:26.981
20 6:06.896
21 1:27.129
22 1:26.714
23 1:27.095
24 1:28.384
25 1:27.566
26 1:27.489
27 1:29.826
28 1:29.135
29 1:28.628
30 1:28.861
31 1:27.879

Rai

17 1:37.523
18 1:27.322
19 8:21.561
20 1:33.584
21 1:25.590
22 1:27.029
23 1:25.742
24 1:27.270
25 1:27.589
26 1:27.941
27 1:27.910
28 1:27.814
29 1:28.056
30 1:28.081
31 1:27.992

Ham

16 1:25.611
17 1:25.316
18 1:25.609
19 1:26.394
20 1:25.892
21 1:30.425
22 5:20.159
23 1:26.054
24 1:25.808
25 1:32.445
26 1:26.697
27 1:26.870
28 1:25.732
29 1:28.530
30 1:27.901
31 1:26.957
32 1:33.462
33 1:27.418

Bot

14 1:26.016
15 1:26.527
16 1:25.627
17 1:25.859
18 1:26.193
19 1:26.290
20 6:09.490
21 1:26.006
22 1:27.585
23 1:33.300
24 1:26.532
25 1:26.543
26 1:26.820
27 1:26.881
28 1:40.042
29 1:28.716
30 1:27.235
31 1:27.551

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 09:00

Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Schuttelberg wrote:
13 May 2017, 08:53
Natalie Pinkham is nice! :oops:
Image