2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[TAG]

This is going to be a contentious issue, seen differently by both sides. But, imo, there is blame attributable to both. Hamilton did not act correctly in relation to SC and in fact was nearly in trouble for actually passing the SC ! He was agitated and only data will show whether or not he deliberately slowed down or braked with Vettel so close behind him. And then there is the issue of Vettel. Watch the onboards from the Ferrari, Seb did not actually turn the steering wheel, so you need to look at the frontal view. The rear of the Ferrari stepped out and caused the car to swing into Hamilton. Was that coincidental or deliberate? Who knows? But steering telemetry would have the answer and will be debated by the stewards later on, especially if there is an appeal.
But i doubt that there would be an appeal as the situation returned to normal after penalty and Mercs foul-up.

Lets hope that the fanboys do not clutter up the site with wild accusations and counter accusations.

Nothing to see here move along, it's Hilton's fault for driving erratically and Vettel didn't even turn the steering wheel.... man to accuse people of being fanboys while dripping with it yourself, I'd rather the mods be up front about who and why they support their guys. This is just embarrassing and actually insulting to the intelligence of the membership here.

[turbof1]

Wow the bias in this thread is funny. Some are making out that it's somehow Hamiltons fault. Others are trying to paint it as accidental. It's rather sad really.

I think this is misinterpretation from your part. I think quite literally everybody agrees Vettel had to be punished for the "retaliation" where he sideswiped Hamilton.

The discussion revolves around the first bump into eachother. Obviously, that was incidental. There are 2 important questions to ask:
-Did Hamilton brake or otherwise slowed down after the corner? Up until now a lot of people assumed he did, but I personally have rewatched the replay numerous times and I don't really see any visible slowing down of Hamilton's car. Either how, some solid evidence or arguments have to be brought forward to stave that.
-Assuming Hamilton did, was or entitled to it or not? After, all he does determine the pace. Unless it can be classified as dangerous driving, and people involved here need to start giving decent arguments for it instead of just trying to pass it as evident, I think this is within what he is allowed to do, what others in his position are allowed to do, and what others have done in the past.

What about the argument Vettel should have kept enough distance to not run into Hamilton? I can't speak for other countries, but in Belgium you are at fault if you run into a car in front on the road, even if said car braked heavily. You have to keep a certain distance to react in time. I don't see how this is different in a low speed SC situation.

[Xwang]

I can't see how anyone could color this as Hamilton's fault. You can clearly see the back of his car, and his brake light. It does not come on. That means that neither did he push the brake pedal, and nor did his car harvest. It was simply that he didn't accelerate through the corner as Vettel expected, and instead coasted a bit to make a gap. You can clearly see from Vettel's onboard that he accelerates through the corner.

The initial contact was Vettel's fault, and then the secondary contact was both Vettel's fault and intentional as far as I can see - he drove along side, made a rude gesture, and then steered into Hamilton.

I'm frankly amazed that Vettel didn't get either a black flag, or a race ban.

F1 CARS DO NOT HAVE BRAKES LIGHTS!!!!

[Xwang]

The red light goes on when the system harvests energy and has nothing to do with the use of the brake pedal from the pilot.

[Mandrake]

My POV:

The matter Lewis was wrong or not.

Mr. Vettel drives into other drivers on purpose, is that what we want?
Put someone off track and get away with a 10 second stop/go penalty?
Today, Race control set some weird standards for the rest of the season.
Vettel must be, in my opinion, be at least be disqualified from today's race

Yes, very weird steward's decision. If I was leading behind an SC in the next races, i would just let others run into my back to destroy their front wings and run away with the victory

[TAG]

Wow the bias in this thread is funny. Some are making out that it's somehow Hamiltons fault. Others are trying to paint it as accidental. It's rather sad really.

I think this misinterpretation from your part. I think quite literally everybody agrees Vettel had to be punished for the "retaliation" where he sideswiped Hamilton.

Um... no not quite literally all talk among yourselves in the mod room. It's getting a little thick here.

[Phil]

People should also be aware that a F1 car will decelerate significantly even without the use of brakes when simply going off throttle.

[turbof1]

Wow the bias in this thread is funny. Some are making out that it's somehow Hamiltons fault. Others are trying to paint it as accidental. It's rather sad really.

I think this misinterpretation from your part. I think quite literally everybody agrees Vettel had to be punished for the "retaliation" where he sideswiped Hamilton.

Um... no not quite literally all talk among yourselves in the mod room. It's getting a little thick here.

Love you too, TAG. But not now. I'm not having any instigation about it today.

[Restomaniac]

Wow the bias in this thread is funny. Some are making out that it's somehow Hamiltons fault. Others are trying to paint it as accidental. It's rather sad really.

I think this misinterpretation from your part. I think quite literally everybody agrees Vettel had to be punished for the "retaliation" where he sideswiped Hamilton.

The discussion revolves around the first bump into eachother. Obviously, that was incidental. There are 2 important questions to ask:
-Did Hamilton brake or otherwise slowed down after the corner? Up until now a lot of people assumed he did, but I personally have rewatched the replay numerous times and I don't really see any visible slowing down of Hamilton's car. Either how, some solid evidence or arguments have to be brought forward to stave that.
-Assuming Hamilton did, was or entitled to it or not? After, all he does determine the pace. Unless it can be classified as dangerous driving, and people involved here need to start giving decent arguments for it instead of just trying to pass it as evident, I think this is within what he is allowed to do, what others in his position are allowed to do, and what others have done in the past.

What about the argument Vettel should have kept enough distance to not run into Hamilton? I can't speak for other countries, but in Belgium you are at fault if you run into a car in front on the road, even if said car braked heavily. You have to keep a certain distance to react in time. I don't see how this is different in a low speed SC situation.

I'm sorry but it's nothing of the kind. Some on this very thread have tried to make out that it wasn't intentional. That isn't my misinterpretation it's exactly what they were trying to say. Instead on jumping on my post perhaps you could correct them?

[dans79]

People should also be aware that a F1 car will decelerate significantly even without the use of brakes when simply going off throttle.

I mentioned this earlier and it was completely ignored.

[FW17]

Hamilton needs a penalty at the next race, this is not the first time he has slowed down abruptly. It has been a feature all through is career, repeatedly warned for not being aware of other cars behind.

This was a case of him trying to back Vettal into Perez gone wrong, needs a penalty.

Almost fell over reading this. Why so bitter. Brakes need warming as do tyres.

The time for that was over when the lights on safety car was out.

[turbof1]

Wow the bias in this thread is funny. Some are making out that it's somehow Hamiltons fault. Others are trying to paint it as accidental. It's rather sad really.

I think this misinterpretation from your part. I think quite literally everybody agrees Vettel had to be punished for the "retaliation" where he sideswiped Hamilton.

The discussion revolves around the first bump into eachother. Obviously, that was incidental. There are 2 important questions to ask:
-Did Hamilton brake or otherwise slowed down after the corner? Up until now a lot of people assumed he did, but I personally have rewatched the replay numerous times and I don't really see any visible slowing down of Hamilton's car. Either how, some solid evidence or arguments have to be brought forward to stave that.
-Assuming Hamilton did, was or entitled to it or not? After, all he does determine the pace. Unless it can be classified as dangerous driving, and people involved here need to start giving decent arguments for it instead of just trying to pass it as evident, I think this is within what he is allowed to do, what others in his position are allowed to do, and what others have done in the past.

What about the argument Vettel should have kept enough distance to not run into Hamilton? I can't speak for other countries, but in Belgium you are at fault if you run into a car in front on the road, even if said car braked heavily. You have to keep a certain distance to react in time. I don't see how this is different in a low speed SC situation.

I'm sorry but it's nothing of the kind. Some on this very thread have tried to make out that it wasn't intentional. That isn't my misinterpretation it's exactly what they were trying to say. Instead on jumping on my post perhaps you could correct them?

Some made a case for he slipped the wheel while frantically waving at Hamilton, when Vettel hit Hamilton in the side. I feel it's being implied by those that still makes Vettel at fault in the second hit. I think it's worth discussing that, although I personally don't think that is the case (that it was "none-intentional"). Either, being unbiassed involves exploring all the options.

[i70q7m7ghw]

People should also be aware that a F1 car will decelerate significantly even without the use of brakes when simply going off throttle.

Agreed, if you look at the steering wheel he was on throttle maintaining the RPM & speed. He didn't slow down as such, just kept a steady speed throughout the corner and through the exit. Does that make him guilty of erratic driving and slowing down under the safety car? I'm not sure.

BUT, if side swiping another car on purpose only gets you 10 seconds, I guess what Hamilton did doesn't even warrant a penalty, so I guess justice was served?

[ringo]

From my perspective. Hamilton did nothing wrong.
I would have agreed he brake tested vettel if vettel was decelerating into a corner at racing conditions (no safety car)
But here vettel clearly stomped on the gas trying to anticipate hamilton accelerating which is his own fault. Doing so under safety car. You don't do brake testing at pedestrian speeds; so the argument of Hamilton brake testing to make vettel misjudge a corner; or that lewis has so much faith in the toughness of his w08 rear end to crush a ferrari wing a walk away unscathed is far fetched.
Vettel simply had a brain fade, and felt stupid, and wanted to make sure lewis received some damage too in the even the ferrari needed a new front wing. Vettel was very calculated in this. This is similar to a headbut in football. Very ugly behavior. He should receive a race ban or had been DQ for this race.

By the way vettel used his right hand and tugged his steering wheel into lewis' car. The camera is not on the side so u dont see it.
Vettel is tricky little troll. haha. But he has intentionally steered his car into Lewis. The car did not veer off so hard that it punted the w08.

[Phil]

I think this misinterpretation from your part. I think quite literally everybody agrees Vettel had to be punished for the "retaliation" where he sideswiped Hamilton.

The discussion revolves around the first bump into eachother. Obviously, that was incidental. There are 2 important questions to ask:
-Did Hamilton brake or otherwise slowed down after the corner? Up until now a lot of people assumed he did, but I personally have rewatched the replay numerous times and I don't really see any visible slowing down of Hamilton's car. Either how, some solid evidence or arguments have to be brought forward to stave that.
-Assuming Hamilton did, was or entitled to it or not? After, all he does determine the pace. Unless it can be classified as dangerous driving, and people involved here need to start giving decent arguments for it instead of just trying to pass it as evident, I think this is within what he is allowed to do, what others in his position are allowed to do, and what others have done in the past.

What about the argument Vettel should have kept enough distance to not run into Hamilton? I can't speak for other countries, but in Belgium you are at fault if you run into a car in front on the road, even if said car braked heavily. You have to keep a certain distance to react in time. I don't see how this is different in a low speed SC situation.

I'm sorry but it's nothing of the kind. Some on this very thread have tried to make out that it wasn't intentional. That isn't my misinterpretation it's exactly what they were trying to say. Instead on jumping on my post perhaps you could correct them?

Some made a case for he slipped the wheel while frantically waving at Hamilton, when Vettel hit Hamilton in the side. I feel it's being implied by those that still makes Vettel at fault in the second hit. I think it's worth discussing that, although I personally don't think that is the case. Either, being unbiassed involves exploring all the options.

Again, it doesnt explain his post race interview about being men when asked if this action was deliberate or not by Channel 4.