When a spectacle becomes a parody of his own

[strad]

but what's the breaking point,

.
In testing it when they pile on more and more things to do.

[strad]

I'm onboard with Jarno Trulli:

Former Formula 1 driver Jarno Trulli has slammed the way the sport has changed since he stopped racing seven seasons ago.
The Italian, now 44, contested over 250 grands prix, but now laments the state of F1 today.
'It's absurd, ridiculous'
He said: "What has F1 become? Do you realise that in Singapore the drivers were 10-12 seconds per lap slower than the pole time? It's absurd, ridiculous. I imagine the dismay that guys like Kimi, Fernando, Lewis and Seb must feel, as they knew the F1 that really was F1."
He stated on the the blog of Italian journalist Leo Turrini: "That F1 pushed from the start to the finish, but now you need to look after consumption, the tyres, so on. Without intervening quickly, this distortion of F1 risks becoming irreversible.
"I regret it enormously because I love this world - it represented so much of my life. What a pity."

[roon]

Maybe these ideas are worth considering in this context:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucratic_inertia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_creep

[wesley123]

I'm onboard with Jarno Trulli:

Former Formula 1 driver Jarno Trulli has slammed the way the sport has changed since he stopped racing seven seasons ago.
The Italian, now 44, contested over 250 grands prix, but now laments the state of F1 today.
'It's absurd, ridiculous'
He said: "What has F1 become? Do you realise that in Singapore the drivers were 10-12 seconds per lap slower than the pole time? It's absurd, ridiculous. I imagine the dismay that guys like Kimi, Fernando, Lewis and Seb must feel, as they knew the F1 that really was F1."
He stated on the the blog of Italian journalist Leo Turrini: "That F1 pushed from the start to the finish, but now you need to look after consumption, the tyres, so on. Without intervening quickly, this distortion of F1 risks becoming irreversible.
"I regret it enormously because I love this world - it represented so much of my life. What a pity."

I wouldn't take those words very highly.

It is very frequently the case that ex-drivers(or from whatever sector) think their era is better than what it is years later.

I also don't really get the complaint. Yes, they were much slower in race trim than in quali trim. So? That implies it would have been the greatest thing ever if everyone just drove 11 seconds faster(without any change of position whatsoever).
It's fairly ironic, as in 2006-2009 the cars in Q3 were fueled according to their first stint, which meant cars were slower in Q3 than they truly were in qualifying.

I really don't get the complaint when the teams employ the fastest strategy.

[zac510]

The mental side of racing would become an issue if the physical side of the race was tough. .. <snip >

Great post and useful thoughts and information marmer, thanks. It's good discussion to explore all areas of what makes the difference between quali and race pace, because there clearly are many, rather than just using the tyres as a scapegoat. And as a technical forum we should not lower ourselves to scapegoating.

[marmer]

To prove the effort levels change listen to team radio. No driver likes to be spoken to while doing something important on track as all they are able to think about is driving the concentration requires all their effort I have tested this myself all be it not in an actual race car. Just playing racing games the hard you try and drive the faster your heart rate will be as you power your brain for maximum concentration. Even though the physical effort is the same just pressing buttons

[Andres125sx]

It´s all related to concentration. I think so because I fly racing drones for fun, this is one of my videos (with a small 130mm motor to motor drone, standard size is 200-210mm and they´re much faster)



If anyone talk to me while I´m flying, I always crash, and I´m sitted on a chair doint zero effort

[Andres125sx]

I'm onboard with Jarno Trulli:

Former Formula 1 driver Jarno Trulli has slammed the way the sport has changed since he stopped racing seven seasons ago.
The Italian, now 44, contested over 250 grands prix, but now laments the state of F1 today.
'It's absurd, ridiculous'
He said: "What has F1 become? Do you realise that in Singapore the drivers were 10-12 seconds per lap slower than the pole time? It's absurd, ridiculous. I imagine the dismay that guys like Kimi, Fernando, Lewis and Seb must feel, as they knew the F1 that really was F1."
He stated on the the blog of Italian journalist Leo Turrini: "That F1 pushed from the start to the finish, but now you need to look after consumption, the tyres, so on. Without intervening quickly, this distortion of F1 risks becoming irreversible.
"I regret it enormously because I love this world - it represented so much of my life. What a pity."

I wouldn't take those words very highly.

It is very frequently the case that ex-drivers(or from whatever sector) think their era is better than what it is years later.

I also don't really get the complaint. Yes, they were much slower in race trim than in quali trim. So? That implies it would have been the greatest thing ever if everyone just drove 11 seconds faster(without any change of position whatsoever).
It's fairly ironic, as in 2006-2009 the cars in Q3 were fueled according to their first stint, which meant cars were slower in Q3 than they truly were in qualifying.

I really don't get the complaint when the teams employ the fastest strategy.

This is what I hate about this. Nowadays people take 11 seconds as a normal difference between a qualy lap and a race lap. 11 seconds for a single lap!!!!

People should go to a racing track, do the fastest lap he can, and then try to do another lap 11 seconds slower to realice how slow is that. 4 or 5 seconds is a huge difference wich should be more than enough to nurse tires, save fuel and take a look to on track screens while cheering the grandstands.

11 seconds is just a different category, GP2 pace actually!

[Ringleheim]

Singapore 2018 GP, poleman and winner laptimes:

Pole lap: 1:36.0
First laps in the race 1:47-1:48
Fast lap in race 1:42.9

We all know about fuel load, racing is not qualifying, blah blah blah... 11-12 seconds slower than in qualifying is, IMHO, embarrasing for F1. The fast lap for Lewis with empty tank was still 6.9 seconds slower than his own Q lap.

6.9 seconds. There was a time when this was unconceivable in f1. Today people don´t even notice...

Anyone who has ever raced at anything know how SLOW you must go to increase your laptimes 7 seconds, even if the tyres are 3 seconds slower (wich they are not), it´s still a 4 second difference. Still a difference wich means drivers are not racing, they´re just cruising around.


I´m the only one who can´t cope with this?


Toni Cuquerella (spanish tv) once said a thing wich did explain it all. Today computers are so advanced they can simulate almost everything, so teams know exactly what´s the fastest strategy, no room for feelings or talented drivers anymore, computers are telling the pace drivers must go, and cruising (tyre managment) and coasting (fuel managment) are faster on a GP length than going full attack mode

We can´t ban computers, but we can shorten a GP length so long term strategies makes no more sense and they´re forced to race again. Any other idea will be welcome


Sorry for the rant

Cruising around at nothing close to the car's maximum performance, or the engine's maximum power output, is nothing new with this current garbage turbo formula we have in F1.

They've been doing that since the very beginning.

One way to fix it would be to re-introduce refueling, which turns the race into a series of qualifying sprint sessions until the next batch of fuel is received.

They could also increase or eliminate a maximum fuel limit, and get rid of the fuel flow limit as well. Let them pump as much gas and carry as much gas as they want for maximum power.

I can't stand these quiet engines and the electrical crap.

Throw it all out, bring back 3 or 3.5 liter NA engines, and let the teams make any number of cylinders they see fit.

Get Judd or other companies of that ilk to pump out a decent customer engine and away we go.

[Phil]

I can't stand these quiet engines and the electrical crap.

I think some of you might be surprised how loud these cars actually really are. I was.

[Just_a_fan]

I'm onboard with Jarno Trulli:

The guy who was so slow in a race that they invented the term "Trulli train" for the traffic jam behind him? He certainly knows all about driving slowly in races after qualifying well...

[strad]

When you can't attack the message, Attack the messenger.

[zac510]

We've been attacking the message for 11 pages, with good discussion about the difference between race and qualifying pace. I think a lot of people agree now that there are many factors involved, not just tyres.

When you can no longer argue your message, just link to someone else parroting the same thing.

[wesley123]

This is what I hate about this. Nowadays people take 11 seconds as a normal difference between a qualy lap and a race lap. 11 seconds for a single lap!!!!

That's still not really an explanation of what the problem is, really

People should go to a racing track, do the fastest lap he can, and then try to do another lap 11 seconds slower to realice how slow is that.

Well, teams thought it was the quickest strategy.

4 or 5 seconds is a huge difference wich should be more than enough to nurse tires, save fuel and take a look to on track screens while cheering the grandstands.

I'm fairly certain the teams strategists are better at their job than you or me and calculated that it wasn't enough to save the tires or fuel.

I really don't get what the problem is. Lets say they would have driven 6 seconds a lap faster, the race (most likely)still would have played out the same. How is that any more exciting?

[Phil]

People should go to a racing track, do the fastest lap he can, and then try to do another lap 11 seconds slower to realice how slow is that.

I'm betting most people don't drive trackdays in cars where the difference in a full tank and an empty one is more than 20% of the cars weight. I also doubt they do on tracks that are over 5km length, nor are they street circuits with walls and no safety margins. I'm also very doubtful, they race cars with engines that last roughly 7 race weekends. I'm not even going to start about tires.

You can obsess about the 11 seconds, but in reality, they were only about 4-5 seconds slower than they could have been going at that point once you consider fuel loads and the length of the track. Singapore is the longest track (time wise) on the F1 calendar, so driving to a slower delta will be proportionally longer than on a shorter track.

Lets just leave it at that, that you don't like street circuits where overtaking is practically not possible and allow driving to a slower delta for strategic reasons, rather than arguing arbitrary numbers as if they mean anything.