2024 car comparison thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
28 Aug 2024, 16:47
AR3-GP wrote:
28 Aug 2024, 16:22
I think this is oversimplified. We can't go off of pictures alone. Ferrari was 12km/h down on Red Bull and 7km/h down on Mclaren in the high speed corners in qualifying. You should consider the downforce to drag ratio (efficiency), not just top speed.
Ehhh, think you got that the other way round...

https://i.ibb.co/FDzqV7V/lol-no.jpg
I said qualifying.

In the race, drivers are managing in certain corners based on pre-race planning so looking at laps has no value. Verstappen always "manages" in the high-speed corners during the races. It is tactical. His entire race was management, only lapping at a pace enough to secure P2. Verstappen never had to push anywhere once they realized they were losing to Norris.
A lion must kill its prey.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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AR3-GP wrote:
28 Aug 2024, 16:53
I said qualifying.

In the race, drivers are managing in certain corners based on pre-race planning so looking at laps has no value. Verstappen always "manages" in the high-speed corners during the races. It is tactical. His entire race was management, only lapping at a pace enough to secure P2.
Cold Q is not representative of SF24 performance due to tyre warm up issues, didn't we all learn this by now

And again, what has any of this to do with chassis (rear wings excluded) drag?
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
28 Aug 2024, 16:59
AR3-GP wrote:
28 Aug 2024, 16:53
I said qualifying.

In the race, drivers are managing in certain corners based on pre-race planning so looking at laps has no value. Verstappen always "manages" in the high-speed corners during the races. It is tactical. His entire race was management, only lapping at a pace enough to secure P2.
Cold Q is not representative of SF24 performance due to tyre warm up issues, didn't we all learn this by now

And again, what has any of this to do with chassis (rear wings excluded) drag?
You are trying to decouple drag in a way that doesn't make sense.
A lion must kill its prey.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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AR3-GP wrote:
28 Aug 2024, 17:05
You are trying to decouple drag in a way that doesn't make sense.
That's some new physics for me, gotta tell you. We have loads of data between two same cars showing how big of a drag impact rear wings have
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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zioture
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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Setup R Wing #Monza #ItalianGP #Techf1 #Formula1
@ScuderiaFerrari

@redbullracing

@McLarenF1

@MercedesAMGF1
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venkyhere
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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zioture wrote:
30 Aug 2024, 18:36
Setup R Wing #Monza #ItalianGP #Techf1 #Formula1
@ScuderiaFerrari

@redbullracing

@McLarenF1

@MercedesAMGF1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GWPlFBPXUAQ ... name=small
MClaren seem to have the lowest drag/DF wing of the four.
While the Mercedes and Redbull seem to take similar approaches (different from the other 2 who are similar to each other) , I don't understand the chop-shop Redbull wing at all - they have the most 'dished' mainplane, but have removed chord length from the flap
  • so where is the downforce coming from ? (if at all that was the aim to use this, instead of something simpler like the ones we see on the Ferrari/McLaren)
  • to me it looks like adding the most amount of drag out of the four ; and because of the sacrificed flap chord, might end up making the DRS not effective at all

AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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Mclaren had 2 different rear wings.
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zioture
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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Image

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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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FNTC
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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I don't understand how the FIA allows this. Probably just because they want some competition in the front. The MCL rear wing even opens the DRS gap some during high speed.

leblanc
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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FNTC wrote:
15 Sep 2024, 22:39
I don't understand how the FIA allows this. Probably just because they want some competition in the front. The MCL rear wing even opens the DRS gap some during high speed.
yeah it looks at least 6-7mm when drs is deactivated and on a straight

Farnborough
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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Looking at the rules posted on here somewhere and relating to, specifically, the DRS operation ..... it excludes any movement of the flap without being under the control method of the driver and through the mechanism provided.

This doesn't appear to impinge on those words ... it does however bend within it's structure to distort with considerable deflection and ultimately change the aerodynamic gain a wider cross section of flow will give by going through the resulting gap between the two components.

The FACT that it bends evenly at BOTH ends, this without flutter or anything else that would suggest error, says it's designed to operate in this manner. The movement of both sides the same illustration of competency in manufacture and therefore design, shows its stepping through the rules carefully.

I wouldn't call that "cheating" but it does encompass design and execution to run "parallel" with the rule's written word and interpretation to give a very obvious affect that those words in particular don't adequately define.

Another rule being "rigidly " fixed, which it also seems to comply with.

We can all see what they're doing, along with it's successful gain. Either it's clarified and closed down by the FIA or the invite goes out to all the others permitting them to follow :D

Sevach
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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FNTC wrote:
15 Sep 2024, 22:39
I don't understand how the FIA allows this. Probably just because they want some competition in the front. The MCL rear wing even opens the DRS gap some during high speed.
One never knows with the FIA, during 2021, they were immediate in introducing further tests.
In 2022 they also introduced harsher tests for floor flexing(Mercedes expected to benefit from this, but only Ferrari got harmed).

Now they are letting it play, except, now Mclaren not only caught up but is way faster than the previous leader, will they decide to level things up once Norris gets within 30 points of Verstappen, i really don't understand...

AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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Farnborough wrote:
16 Sep 2024, 09:01
Looking at the rules posted on here somewhere and relating to, specifically, the DRS operation ..... it excludes any movement of the flap without being under the control method of the driver and through the mechanism provided.

This doesn't appear to impinge on those words ... it does however bend within it's structure to distort with considerable deflection and ultimately change the aerodynamic gain a wider cross section of flow will give by going through the resulting gap between the two components.

The FACT that it bends evenly at BOTH ends, this without flutter or anything else that would suggest error, says it's designed to operate in this manner. The movement of both sides the same illustration of competency in manufacture and therefore design, shows its stepping through the rules carefully.

I wouldn't call that "cheating" but it does encompass design and execution to run "parallel" with the rule's written word and interpretation to give a very obvious affect that those words in particular don't adequately define.

Another rule being "rigidly " fixed, which it also seems to comply with.

We can all see what they're doing, along with it's successful gain. Either it's clarified and closed down by the FIA or the invite goes out to all the others permitting them to follow :D
There are 9 other teams that show its possible for the DRS flap to be quite rigid. It's not incidental flex or flex that poor Mclaren just cannot prevent.
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Vanja #66
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Re: 2024 car comparison thread

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SiLo wrote:
15 Oct 2024, 16:40
Is there evidence of teams running big BW and smaller rear wings? It always seems like the rear wing level sort of matches somewhat the BW.
Well, depends on definition of "big" we agree on. There were cases of teams running mid-loaded RW with mid-high or high BW, like Canada this year

viewtopic.php?p=1222157#p1222157

In early 2022 all teams were running basically full size BWs on most track, only reducing their size in 2023
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie