2025 McLaren F1 Team

[-wkst-]

I did also explain early on that I am not suggesting the budget cap kept the team.afloat but that in my opinion they would not have been competitive without it.

Don't know if anybody misunderstood my answers, or I expressed myself wrong, but that's exactly what I wanted to say. Without the cap McLaren would simply not compete at the front.

[mwillems]

I did also explain early on that I am not suggesting the budget cap kept the team.afloat but that in my opinion they would not have been competitive without it.

Don't know if anybody misunderstood my answers, or I expressed myself wrong, but that's exactly what I wanted to say. Without the cap McLaren would simply not compete at the front.

Thing is, I just read the whole thread and no one said the budget cap rescued Mclaren. Everyone else and myself just said that Mclaren couldn't compete on budget.

I for some reason assumed someone had said that when I was replying to him, but no one made that assertion so I've no idea why we went down that Rabbit Hole or why I blindly went with his remarks.

[Emag]

Lando Norris talks about the team's approach for next year, his shortcomings in 2024 and hunger for the WDC going forward :

https://f1i.com/news/529699-norris-mcla ... n-top.html

[mwillems]

It's funny when someone understands a topic so poorly that they don't realize they've proven their opponent's point.

But many of your posts were focused on bankruptcy and rescue so with due respect, I do not understand how this is able to argue against the idea we were not able to match or come close to top teams budgets?

Because the team has been able to match those budgets throughout most of its history? And there's literally no reason to believe they can't now? And YOUR entire arguments were based around pandemic-era issues, hence why we kept talking about that subject.

I'm going to keep saying it until you listen: literally not a single person in all of F1 thinks McLaren is only compete because of the budget cap, EXCEPT the people in this thread. Only you guys are making this argument. Literally only you and no one else. Come on.

History probably counts less than the 3 years before the budget cap and my dates were for the few years preceding COVID because it is most relevant for how Mclaren were aided by the budget cap. Of course we will look at their finances before the cap to see if it helped. but pointedly, I looked at the years before the pandemic so as not to be skewed by COVID.

Here's a nice article by RaceFans, who are always well informed. it is the 2019 budgets, you'll notice that the whole top 10 is ordered by financial spend, not without coincidence.


https://www.racefans.net/2020/01/02/the ... ams-spent/
https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/27/the ... -part-one/

Mclaren: $250m
Red Bull: $335m (+$85m)
Ferrari: $435m (+$185m)
Mercedes: $425m (+$175m)

These numbers exclude engine costs. Mclaren were miles away from the front runners.

Regarding the idea that no one outside here doesn't think that budgets make a difference? Think about the hoo-haa around the up to $2m that Red Bull overspent in the first year of the cost cap and how this was deemed to be able to bring enough time to swing the championship, this was stated by several TPs and CEOs in F1.


In general, the idea that financial might doesn't have a massive bearing on competitive performance is a wildly baffling assertion and when said now clearly that is a quite silly statement to make. Everyone and their dog knows that money talks in this game, that is why they brought the budget cap.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... f%20pounds.

[Mattchu]

From an interview Andreas Seidl did with motorsort.com

"The next step is that the 2021 regulations will hopefully go in the right direction. One thing is clear: if we want to be competitive in the future and fight with the others, then we need a level playing field.

"For a team like us, the budget cap is the only way we can ever fight with the three big teams again."

From here:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... s/4491263/

[CjC]

Lando Norris talks about the team's approach for next year, his shortcomings in 2024 and hunger for the WDC going forward :

https://f1i.com/news/529699-norris-mcla ... n-top.html

Yea I read this the other day too

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/what ... r-mclaren/

Can’t help but feel that Lando can’t say the right thing these days. Mr Noble is suggesting that Lando has unrealistic ambitions but you can imagine if he said that Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes had as good of an opportunity if not better than McLaren he would blasted for his lack of ambition and defeatist attitude.

For me, what ever happens, happens but it’s good to hear he is confident they will be in the fight!

[the EDGE]

Lando Norris talks about the team's approach for next year, his shortcomings in 2024 and hunger for the WDC going forward :

https://f1i.com/news/529699-norris-mcla ... n-top.html

Yea I read this the other day too

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/what ... r-mclaren/

Can’t help but feel that Lando can’t say the right thing these days. Mr Noble is suggesting that Lando has unrealistic ambitions but you can imagine if he said that Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes had as good of an opportunity if not better than McLaren he would blasted for his lack of ambition and defeatist attitude.

For me, what ever happens, happens but it’s good to hear he is confident they will be in the fight!

Here’s the actual interview where he says it

https://www.youtube.com/live/VYsgk0pIKT ... hTQ7Pg0rfu

[Emag]

Lando Norris talks about the team's approach for next year, his shortcomings in 2024 and hunger for the WDC going forward :

https://f1i.com/news/529699-norris-mcla ... n-top.html

Yea I read this the other day too

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/what ... r-mclaren/

Can’t help but feel that Lando can’t say the right thing these days. Mr Noble is suggesting that Lando has unrealistic ambitions but you can imagine if he said that Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes had as good of an opportunity if not better than McLaren he would blasted for his lack of ambition and defeatist attitude.

For me, what ever happens, happens but it’s good to hear he is confident they will be in the fight!

I am sorry but that's not the wrong thing to say at all. It's completely normal to be ambitious after the season McLaren had. It would actually be worrying if they just dropped the towel and said something along the lines of "Actually, we got lucky in 2024 and we have no idea how to maintain this advantage, so we are just going to enjoy this win but we know we probably aren't fighting for it again next year".

Also it's particularly interesting what Andrea Stella says about their performance advantage :

... performance advantage we had was 0.04% on average

So much for the "rocketship" claims. It's really annoying how this narrative of McLaren somehow having a dominant car last year formed up just because Lando was not the most likeable character with some of his public statements ...

If McLaren really had a dominant car then they wouldn't have just barely won the WCC at the last race of the season. RedBull on 2023 proved that you can still be almost completely untouchable on both championships even if you have a mediocre second driver as long as your car is dominating the field with the other driver.

Fault him for bad starts, but Lando is NOT a Lance Stroll tier driver as some people seemingly think he is. If he had the RB19 on his hands he would have won the championship with ease. Certainly with Perez as his teammate, but even with Oscar.

[mwillems]

In reference to winning easily, this seems to be talking about the team converting the dominant or just generally strong positions and not making life hard for ourselves and squandering wins and points, which they did.

It wasn't that they had a rocketship, it's that they had a car fast enough to do quite a bit better than they managed, which Lando seems to agree with.

I have to say. When I saw Emags post I did think "f*king he'll, from one contentious discussion into another"

[CjC]

Lando Norris talks about the team's approach for next year, his shortcomings in 2024 and hunger for the WDC going forward :

https://f1i.com/news/529699-norris-mcla ... n-top.html

Yea I read this the other day too

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/what ... r-mclaren/

Can’t help but feel that Lando can’t say the right thing these days. Mr Noble is suggesting that Lando has unrealistic ambitions but you can imagine if he said that Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes had as good of an opportunity if not better than McLaren he would blasted for his lack of ambition and defeatist attitude.

For me, what ever happens, happens but it’s good to hear he is confident they will be in the fight!

I am sorry but that's not the wrong thing to say at all. It's completely normal to be ambitious after the season McLaren had. It would actually be worrying if they just dropped the towel and said something along the lines of "Actually, we got lucky in 2024 and we have no idea how to maintain this advantage, so we are just going to enjoy this win but we know we probably aren't fighting for it again next year".

Also it's particularly interesting what Andrea Stella says about their performance advantage :

... performance advantage we had was 0.04% on average

So much for the "rocketship" claims. It's really annoying how this narrative of McLaren somehow having a dominant car last year formed up just because Lando was not the most likeable character with some of his public statements ...

If McLaren really had a dominant car then they wouldn't have just barely won the WCC at the last race of the season. RedBull on 2023 proved that you can still be almost completely untouchable on both championships even if you have a mediocre second driver as long as your car is dominating the field with the other driver.

Fault him for bad starts, but Lando is NOT a Lance Stroll tier driver as some people seemingly think he is. If he had the RB19 on his hands he would have won the championship with ease. Certainly with Perez as his teammate, but even with Oscar.

I believe Mr Noble is a Hamilton fan.
If the McLaren/ Ferrari battle continues this season, the us McLaren fans will probably start to see the biased reporting towards Lewis and Ferrari which has annoyed Max and his fans over the years.

[Emag]

I have to say. When I saw Emags post I did think "f*king he'll, from one contentious discussion into another"

I don't see it as contentious at all to be honest. The data is what it is and the data shows that apart from a handful of races, McLaren never had a comfortable performance advantage over the rest of the field in 2024.
Because McLaren did really well in Hungary and Zandvoort, people assume that was actually the pace of the car everywhere. It's just that McLaren and their drivers did not utilize it.

It's absurd really. It's like looking at Ferrari's pace at Texas in isolation and making the claim that Ferrari actually had a car capable of toying with the field last season, but for some reason they didn't win any of the titles ...

The only way for the "rocketship" claims to make sense, is if you consider Lando to be a mediocre driver (and by extension, Oscar to be even worse than mediocre).

I have no interest or pleasure in arguing with any person who believes that to be true in any case.

[mwillems]

I'm remembering last year's discussions lol

I think that Ferrari like Mclaren had the stronger package at some point in the year. Not ever dominant for more than one race at a time though, like Mclaren.

But as Lando says, they did waste a lot of opportunities.

[Henri]

I'm remembering last year's discussions lol

I think that Ferrari like Mclaren had the stronger package at some point in the year. Not ever dominant for more than one race at a time though, like Mclaren.

But as Lando says, they did waste a lot of opportunities.

When ferrari and McLaren had an advantage last year it was 1 to 2 tenths. But redbul om the first 5 races it was 5 to 7 tenths like in china.. i think lando would up his game ofvhe had a alonso or rusell as teamate so motivate him. Your teamate motivates you if his ight there with you.. oscar is good but not elite norris has the same gap to him he had on daniel

[mwillems]

I'm remembering last year's discussions lol

I think that Ferrari like Mclaren had the stronger package at some point in the year. Not ever dominant for more than one race at a time though, like Mclaren.

But as Lando says, they did waste a lot of opportunities.

When ferrari and McLaren had an advantage last year it was 1 to 2 tenths. But redbul om the first 5 races it was 5 to 7 tenths like in china.. i think lando would up his game ofvhe had a alonso or rusell as teamate so motivate him. Your teamate motivates you if his ight there with you.. oscar is good but not elite norris has the same gap to him he had on daniel

Daniel was a highly paid veteran hence more was expected. Oscar must have pushed a bit otherwise there wouldn't have been team orders fiasco.

Not an opinion I'll agree with, I'm more than happy with Oscars progress so far.

Crunch year now though.

[Henri]

I'm remembering last year's discussions lol

I think that Ferrari like Mclaren had the stronger package at some point in the year. Not ever dominant for more than one race at a time though, like Mclaren.

But as Lando says, they did waste a lot of opportunities.

When ferrari and McLaren had an advantage last year it was 1 to 2 tenths. But redbul om the first 5 races it was 5 to 7 tenths like in china.. i think lando would up his game ofvhe had a alonso or rusell as teamate so motivate him. Your teamate motivates you if his ight there with you.. oscar is good but not elite norris has the same gap to him he had on daniel

Daniel was a highly paid veteran hence more was expected. Oscar must have pushed a bit otherwise there wouldn't have been team orders fiasco.

Not an opinion I'll agree with, I'm more than happy with Oscars progress so far.

Crunch year now though.

He has no excuses lando got all McLaren poles