Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Oh, and we need better TV coverage of the action. Too often directors cut away from something to show a pit stop or a replay of the start or some minor 'off' by a driver not in a direct fight. The "chess game" of a following driver setting up a leading driver for the pass is often missed as is the actual attempt.
More use of picture in picture type stuff would be good. Show the pit stop, for example, in a windowed picture whilst watching the main action on the rest of the screen. Doesn't need to be one image shown full screen all of the time.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
The one thing that i think needs to be sorted is Mechanical grip levels and aero levels.
Firstly mechanical grip;
- Making the tyres slimmer, more so on the front than we got this year will help, not make them Formula Ford thin, but thin enough that mechanical grip is severely limited from rubber. Also lean too hard on them and they’ll be done in a few laps with current compounds, making tyre wear even more of a concern.
- Brake rules should be looked into again. If we make the retardation of brakes even less, maybe make the discs smaller on the front of the car by 10%??? or steel brakes maybes???
- Bring back the single compound rule, and make them about 3-5 seconds of a lap apart, so if you want to be quick in quali, you will have to stop more in the race.
- Drivers to have no more than 7 dry tyres for the weekend, this means you have to think about the race on Friday and not just Sunday, as you may have to use one set of tyres way past their useable life cycle. 3 Hard compounds and 4 soft compounds.
- Above with 2 tyre manufacturers where each team chooses before the season, each manufacturer makes one hard and one soft compound. Thus creating a performance differential. Basically one brand may be more durable on long tracks that are warmer, the other on shorter colder tracks.
Secondly Aero levels;
- Now that we have banned those wheel Frisbees, lets get rid of those small barge boards that have replaced the massive on es we had in 2008, also the turning vanes on the side pods must go as well. Bring the mirrors back inboard as a point of safety.
- On the sidepods, make the sidepods openings a minimum cross section, help cooling of engines, make them run closer to the car in front without the engines cooking. This should also incur drag, which could aid the slip stream effect???
- On diffusers, could be have a standardised cross section on the centre section similar to the rules on the front wing???
- And on the front wing, ban all the step/secondary planes that all the teams have similar to the Red Bull/McLaren style and Mercedes/Force India styles as well. Make the wings like what Virgins VR-01 was at launch day???
- Make the rear wing slightly wider, but standardise the centre section with a set chord and neutral first plane, a similar rule to the front wing centre section again.
- Adjustable aero to be banned, lets get the drivers to drive, and make the drivers set up and race with what they had in quali.
To me its all about reducing levels and creating performance differentials, making grids un-predictable and totally mixed up.
The one thing id limit is pre season testing more. Make the teams and drivers learn more on the job at a race than on a test track. Say 3 three day tests, where teams are allowed (again) to test 2 cars on track at any one time, but make it that any driver can only take part in 7 days testing (Half days are considered a days allocation. Meaning that test and reserve drivers and young, development drivers can get a chance for the remaining 4 days of testing. Also limit each team to a maximum of 5Km of testing distance before the season, meaning that on the job testing is made all the more important. Id also make it compulsory that the test and reserve driver must compete in FP1 of every race (with exceptions made to new and majorly [more than 30% of the lap distance on the previous year] altered tracks) weekend. Thus allowing us to avoid the debacles of mid 09 with Algeursauri, Badoer, Fisichella, Grosjean and to a lesser extent Liuzzi, Where a test driver doesn’t come in cold into the car.
This would add to performance differentials, and emphasise the team with the best base will be in there with a shout earlier on. But with this, id make it that every 5 races, the bottom 8 teams get to update their cars outside of homogenisation rules. Meaning that the best car at the start of the season may not be the best at the end, meaning that winning a championship is harder with effectively a car that is as how it finished testing.
ESPImperium wrote:The one thing that i think needs to be sorted is Mechanical grip levels and aero levels.
Firstly mechanical grip;
- Making the tyres slimmer, more so on the front than we got this year will help, not make them Formula Ford thin, but thin enough that mechanical grip is severely limited from rubber. Also lean too hard on them and they’ll be done in a few laps with current compounds, making tyre wear even more of a concern.
That's basically saying that Gary Anderson, when he predicted that there would be less action and overtaking, because of the shrinking of the front tyres, was wrong.
Now, I don't know who you are in real life, but I'm inclined to trust Anderson more on technical F1 matters, sorry.
Regarding the big picture, I'm all for more mechanical vs. aero grip, mechanical grip doesn't disappear in the wake of another car. Regarding tyres, if there was a problem in balance between rears and fronts, I would say the rears should have grown, not the fronts shrinking.
I just generally don't agree with those, ESP. I think we want to go in a direction with SMALLER performance differentials, not larger. Larger = parade. Smaller = close in racing.
Also, making tire wear MORE of a concern with limited tire sets.. not seeing that as being good. I still think the direction to go is to have tires that can really take abuse and hang in there. If you have tires that are shot if you make one slip up, you're not going to want to take any chances in getting after someone in front of you. Big slicks with wear- and temperature-insensitive performance. Booyah.
If you're going to have a tire war, or even if not, let the tire manufacturer determine which compounds to bring. An APPROPRIATE prime and option for each track.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.
All technical and racing regulations have been tried by the FIA but still most races are still uninteresting, with few exceptions due to changing weather and some racetracks offering opportunities for overtaking. It makes me think more that NASCAR has got the right formula, re:
tracks - guaranties overtaking because cars run at full speed most of the time
overtaking - overtaking galore! happens everytime because aero design is not significant
wake turbulence - minimal, that's why you see 4 to 5 car trains following the lead.
finishers - Top qualifiers do not get any guaranty to finish at all because even team mates take each other out.
entertainment value - because of close neck-and-neck racing and unpredictability, racing is full time. Cars don't coast to save fuel or tires.
Maybe FIA can learn some thing or two from NASCAR.
casper wrote:All technical and racing regulations have been tried by the FIA but still most races are still uninteresting, with few exceptions due to changing weather and some racetracks offering opportunities for overtaking. It makes me think more that NASCAR has got the right formula, re:
tracks - guaranties overtaking because cars run at full speed most of the time
overtaking - overtaking galore! happens everytime because aero design is not significant
wake turbulence - minimal, that's why you see 4 to 5 car trains following the lead.
finishers - Top qualifiers do not get any guaranty to finish at all because even team mates take each other out.
entertainment value - because of close neck-and-neck racing and unpredictability, racing is full time. Cars don't coast to save fuel or tires.
Maybe FIA can learn some thing or two from NASCAR.
Lots of overtaking and still boring. In fact, I can't think of any form of racing more boring than ovals.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Just_a_fan wrote:
Lots of overtaking and still boring. In fact, I can't think of any form of racing more boring than ovals.
Hate to go off-topic but it called for it. I once disliked Nascar because, well simply I never watched a race, and never understood it. Now however I look forward to watching it as much as an F1 race. Ive come to understand the sport and its supprised me. There is a reason its hugley popular in America, and now reaching Europe, and its not because its boring.
I've read most of this topic and there are lots of good ideas and lots of bad ideas.
The Bad:
-skinnier tires: If anything the cars need wider tires to great more mechanical grip which will help a driver when close to another car and could increase the chances for a pass. Mechanical grip needs to increase as it is always present regardless of whether or not you are behind another car.
-Budget caps: just plain stupid, if you cant afford it get out!
-engine freeze: engine manufactures would be able to increase performance of the cars.
-rev limit: get rid of it
-limits on tires and engines and testing: Teams need to test components and with no testing and limited equipment to test with it makes it really hard for teams to progress and build on their cars. The smaller teams would benefit so much from a lift on test banning. Having the third driver on fridays would also be great, i rrally liked that rivalry that went on on friday afternoons between the test drivers, it gives them experience and helps the teams find a better set up and they also test new aero devises.
The good:
-larger tires
-no more engine freeze
-friday testing for third drivers
-tire battle: created great fun during its implementation a couple of years ago
-things stated above
-no races in random places: ie india, and middle of butt f&%$ no where, etc... expansion is great but when you take into consideration a race like the one in Istanbul and china where the ticket sales have had a slump it really shows that not every one is a formula one fan. Also take india into example, they are put so much money into having a formula one race, but how do they expect to sell all the tickets when the majority of its population is in poverty, yes you'll have the rich and wealthy fly in from around the world but thats only a fraction of ticket sales, unless tickets are subsidized i dont know how some of the new tracks figure on on making a profit. we need to come back to europe and america and race where the formula one audiences are.
-bring back refueling: its a given, creates more overtaking possibilities.
Some other ideas i had:
-2000 spec front wings ( low to the ground for more downforce and not as wide to reduce fear of contact with another car )
-2001 spec rear wings ( 3 elements, could make the rear wing more efficient thus producing a "cleaner" wake)
Here's an idea. Choose the year when the racing was awesome. Then bring the regulations of that year now. Add safety to match conditions and modify to meet present engine power and other efficiencies.
Or the simpler idea, Just reduce the square metre area that the car can occupy, make it shorter (maybe a square) , wide tyres, no limits on aero, and maybe a reduction of engine power. Karting is great like that.
Ultimate of racing. Formula one's been about putting a lot of money into technology and having talented pilots using the tech to their advantage. The speed doesnt really matter since u cant judge it on the TV screen anyway.
jaxxtec wrote:Here's an idea. Choose the year when the racing was awesome. Then bring the regulations of that year now. Add safety to match conditions and modify to meet present engine power and other efficiencies.
Or the simpler idea, Just reduce the square metre area that the car can occupy, make it shorter (maybe a square) , wide tyres, no limits on aero, and maybe a reduction of engine power. Karting is great like that.
Ultimate of racing. Formula one's been about putting a lot of money into technology and having talented pilots using the tech to their advantage. The speed doesnt really matter since u cant judge it on the TV screen anyway.
My bit of info
2009? not a bad year in terms of thrilling races..
No testing at all would surely stirr up things dramatically .allow only the option tyre in practise .No one has a clue of whats happening ,so it makes no sense to hold back ,as you have no information how long the tyres will hang on with the speed you chose..so bang in the laps and pit as soon as they go away from you..good fun to watch how drivers and teams are able to adapt ...
I hate the tyre regulations with avengence. But if we are going to have artificial tyre limitations then why not say that each car has two sets each of four dry compounds per weekend? It would mean that the tyre supplier has exactly the same requirement for each GP. It would simplify the logistics and might encourage a bit of tyre gambling from the teams. Ruin a set of tyres and there is no second chance.
