2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

Helmut Marko recently said that Ricciardo was a lot slower than Max and Perez in the simulator at Milton Keynes.
How much slower he wouldn't say, but Perez didn't have to worry about being replaced by Ricciardo.

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It was Horner that remarked that Daniel has picked up some bad techniques, which wasn't the case when he was driving for them in the past. I guess it's entirely possible that he has tried to adjust to those less accomplished cars that he drove the past few years and has his mind tuned to do certain different things that aren't necessary for the RB cars. He was a highly rated and a talented driver and that wouldn't vanish because of the past few years elsewhere. May be good amount of time being spent in RB simulator would help him iron those out back. Even at this stage, I am sure he would be faster and better race driver than Perez. I hope he gets another chance. He might not beat Max, but he would surely be an upgrade on Perez.

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I have doubts. He may have clicked with those cars well, but today's Red Bull is much different. I don't think he's versatile. Would probably struggle as much or more as Perez.

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I'm going one step further. I think Ricciardo will not be in F1 at all next season. At least not as one of the twenty drivers.

[Laserguru]

RedBull drivers tend to reach their peaks mid-career and drop like a rock thereafter. I can't really see Daniel returning to the form he once had.

While I find it difficult to reason why, you make a good point and agree wrt Daniel regaining his performance

Yes. It sounds like a broad brush but it can be argued when one looks at the life cycle of a RedBull driver.

They start very young in juniour series where there are put under extreme pressure to perform.

They join Alfa tauri in the "bubble" where there are only compared against other RedBull drivers.

They are pushed, pulled and yanked by Marko if they survive catapulted into a top flight seat, under the microscope again.

If rumours are true they undergo forced driving "training" to learn to drive a Newey car in a certain fashion. They get used to this and then lose their sense of feel in other cars.

Expose them to other (fast) drivers in other cars and if they are slower their entire world view starts crumbling and the deccline begins....

Nice. Feels like it’s summer break and no competition to talk about.

It’s a good thing then that Verstappen was signed RB junior driver for the remaining 3 Formula 3 races that season only. And plans to leave F1 early. Too bad for Carlos Sainz though who must be pulling his hairs out how good he could have been in the SF-23 and outshine Charles when not spoiled by the RB junior program for a mindblowing 5 years. Sorry for the rest of his carreer too. Although Renault and Mclaren restored the damage somehow but then again that didn’t work out for Ricciardo who was too far gone probably. Maybe Ricciardo was more susceptible to the forced driving style of a Renault, which was discovered and documented well by TopGear. Maybe we can learn stuff on Gasly and Tsunoda too. Half the grid is wasted it seems. Meanwhile de Vries must be a vicious experiment from Mercedes in an attempt to eliminate even the mentioned short term success by injecting an overly hyped formula E world champion created by their sports media manipulation for this sole purpose. Wow I just made that up I must admit but totally plausible. The start of a rumor that could be true. Now that I think about it, it’s all one big conspiracy.

Must admit I am looking forward to the new regulations when we can speculate on power trains and unreliable combustion engines, smaller lighter cars hopefully. This aero era with overweight cars and flawless engines is a bit of an anomaly. Who will catch up with RBR when. And that is a statement remotely relevant on the 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 team.

[mendis]

If rumours are true they undergo forced driving "training" to learn to drive a Newey car in a certain fashion. They get used to this and then lose their sense of feel in other cars.

Expose them to other (fast) drivers in other cars and if they are slower their entire world view starts crumbling and the deccline begins....

Is that why Prost retired at Williams? He might have thought, there is no point going to any other team after having driven Newey car as he would anyway going to be useless. Then I guess Senna would have been pretty much useless after a couple of years at Newey cars in Williams. I guess that was the case with Mika also? May be that's why he retired.

[PlatinumZealot]

They werent at mid career and they weren't at RedBull.

[napoleon1981]

RedBull drivers tend to reach their peaks mid-career and drop like a rock thereafter. I can't really see Daniel returning to the form he once had.

While I find it difficult to reason why, you make a good point and agree wrt Daniel regaining his performance

If rumours are true they undergo forced driving "training" to learn to drive a Newey car in a certain fashion. They get used to this and then lose their sense of feel in other cars.

I have heard through the rumour mill that Toto is wanting his drivers to go to this forced driving camp. The new Mercedes is starting to look alot like a Newey car, and he is realizing that his drivers need to know how to drive it now.

[Wouter]

RedBull drivers tend to reach their peaks mid-career and drop like a rock thereafter. I can't really see Daniel returning to the form he once had.

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While I find it difficult to reason why, you make a good point and agree wrt Daniel regaining his performance

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Yes. It sounds like a broad brush but it can be argued when one looks at the life cycle of a RedBull driver.

They start very young in juniour series where there are put under extreme pressure to perform.

They join Alfa tauri in the "bubble" where there are only compared against other RedBull drivers.

They are pushed, pulled and yanked by Marko if they survive catapulted into a top flight seat, under the microscope again.

If rumours are true they undergo forced driving "training" to learn to drive a Newey car in a certain fashion. They get used to this and then lose their sense of feel in other cars.

Expose them to other (fast) drivers in other cars and if they are slower their entire world view starts crumbling and the deccline begins....

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I hope this is a joke. Every driver in every team has to teach himself how to perform as well as possible with the car.
No driver training is given by anyone anywhere!

[Big Tea]

If a team can spend several million to gain a tenth on bodywork, why is it wrong to spend a paltry sum on driver training to get far more value in race time?
I ( and I assume most people ) see nothing wrong with that. Even if it is looked down on, you can not train a bad driver to be a good driver if they do not have the skill in the first place, and if they do not have the skills they would not get into a position to be in the RBR mother team.

There may be a case for saying that it cripples a driver for going to any other car without the same connection, but that is another case.

[Edax]

My guess is that Ricciardo ran into another issue. He is on record that he did not believe in sim training, and he did not own a rig.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... 45620/amp/

I think there a couple of things conspired against him. i) The cars have become much more difficult to set up and to drive fast. ii) Practice time has reduced. iii) a lot of new tracks are added and old tracks reconfigured iv) the sims have gotten a lot better.

I can imagine that this is becoming an increasing handicap in a field where most of the drivers spend many hours in the sim honing their skills and learning the track.

[PlatinumZealot]

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While I find it difficult to reason why, you make a good point and agree wrt Daniel regaining his performance

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Yes. It sounds like a broad brush but it can be argued when one looks at the life cycle of a RedBull driver.

They start very young in juniour series where there are put under extreme pressure to perform.

They join Alfa tauri in the "bubble" where there are only compared against other RedBull drivers.

They are pushed, pulled and yanked by Marko if they survive catapulted into a top flight seat, under the microscope again.

If rumours are true they undergo forced driving "training" to learn to drive a Newey car in a certain fashion. They get used to this and then lose their sense of feel in other cars.

Expose them to other (fast) drivers in other cars and if they are slower their entire world view starts crumbling and the deccline begins....

.
I hope this is a joke. Every driver in every team has to teach himself how to perform as well as possible with the car.
No driver training is given by anyone anywhere!

New Formula 1 fan I see!!

Driver training is a thing. It's just not talke about much. Do a teeny bit of research and you will learn.

[mendis]

If a team can spend several million to gain a tenth on bodywork, why is it wrong to spend a paltry sum on driver training to get far more value in race time?
I ( and I assume most people ) see nothing wrong with that. Even if it is looked down on, you can not train a bad driver to be a good driver if they do not have the skill in the first place, and if they do not have the skills they would not get into a position to be in the RBR mother team.

There may be a case for saying that it cripples a driver for going to any other car without the same connection, but that is another case.

Another reason to appreciate Red Bull for investing heavily in driver training to extract the best from them, which no other team is doing.

[Bill]

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Yes. It sounds like a broad brush but it can be argued when one looks at the life cycle of a RedBull driver.

They start very young in juniour series where there are put under extreme pressure to perform.

They join Alfa tauri in the "bubble" where there are only compared against other RedBull drivers.

They are pushed, pulled and yanked by Marko if they survive catapulted into a top flight seat, under the microscope again.

If rumours are true they undergo forced driving "training" to learn to drive a Newey car in a certain fashion. They get used to this and then lose their sense of feel in other cars.

Expose them to other (fast) drivers in other cars and if they are slower their entire world view starts crumbling and the deccline begins....

.
I hope this is a joke. Every driver in every team has to teach himself how to perform as well as possible with the car.
No driver training is given by anyone anywhere!

New Formula 1 fan I see!!

Driver training is a thing. It's just not talke about much. Do a teeny bit of research and you will learn.

they is no such thing as Newey car you guys make up nonsense.cars changed from regulation to regulation ,the blown diffuser cars of 09 are completely different from today hybrid ground effect cars .quite frankly the car became a little different everytime a team put in a new update.

[PlatinumZealot]

they is no such thing as Newey car you guys make up nonsense.cars changed from regulation to regulation ,the blown diffuser cars of 09 are completely different from today hybrid ground effect cars .quite frankly the car became a little different everytime a team put in a new update.

Newey cars all have prodigious rear downforce. There was never one without. Check back his leyton house rear from late eighties:

[Curbstone]

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Yes. It sounds like a broad brush but it can be argued when one looks at the life cycle of a RedBull driver.

They start very young in juniour series where there are put under extreme pressure to perform.

They join Alfa tauri in the "bubble" where there are only compared against other RedBull drivers.

They are pushed, pulled and yanked by Marko if they survive catapulted into a top flight seat, under the microscope again.

If rumours are true they undergo forced driving "training" to learn to drive a Newey car in a certain fashion. They get used to this and then lose their sense of feel in other cars.

Expose them to other (fast) drivers in other cars and if they are slower their entire world view starts crumbling and the deccline begins....

.
I hope this is a joke. Every driver in every team has to teach himself how to perform as well as possible with the car.
No driver training is given by anyone anywhere!

New Formula 1 fan I see!!

Driver training is a thing. It's just not talke about much. Do a teeny bit of research and you will learn.

No need to be belittling.
For instance, I am not a new fan and I did a teeny bit of research and couldn't find anything about is. Please feel free to provide any links to an article about driver training for F1 drivers.

And honestly, the lifecycle you're describing seems to belong to wonderland.

[Wouter]

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Yes. It sounds like a broad brush but it can be argued when one looks at the life cycle of a RedBull driver.

They start very young in juniour series where there are put under extreme pressure to perform.

They join Alfa tauri in the "bubble" where there are only compared against other RedBull drivers.

They are pushed, pulled and yanked by Marko if they survive catapulted into a top flight seat, under the microscope again.

If rumours are true they undergo forced driving "training" to learn to drive a Newey car in a certain fashion. They get used to this and then lose their sense of feel in other cars.

Expose them to other (fast) drivers in other cars and if they are slower their entire world view starts crumbling and the deccline begins....

.
I hope this is a joke. Every driver in every team has to teach himself how to perform as well as possible with the car.
No driver training is given by anyone anywhere!

.
New Formula 1 fan I see!!

Driver training is a thing. It's just not talke about much. Do a teeny bit of research and you will learn.

.


Please feel free to provide any links to a reliable article from a team about driver training for their F1 drivers.
Thanks in advance.

[Farnborough]

they is no such thing as Newey car you guys make up nonsense.cars changed from regulation to regulation ,the blown diffuser cars of 09 are completely different from today hybrid ground effect cars .quite frankly the car became a little different everytime a team put in a new update.

Newey cars all have prodigious rear downforce. There was never one without. Check back his leyton house rear from late eighties:

https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/ass ... 35-2_7.jpg

Good picture there....look at rear details, shelf coming off engine cover, not too large diffuser exit (exhaust blown I think) also fairly important clearance of tire squirt through half tunnels between wheel and diffuser wall !!!

This here illustrates what's important about current RB, there's a lot of air volume on both that's coming direct from outside wall of sidepod area to make virtual tunnel between wheel and diffuser, all of this while working the floor in a consistent state to give platform linearity to drivers.

There's so much experience over so many years in vehicle aero embedded in these car. AN said himself that the Williams was effectively this car with development (held in his head) after the failure of Leyton House team.

And journalists currently wonder why he comes up with these things, very long term and deep experience will drive that.