2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[mrluke]

You're not talking about overall downforce/drag change but relative downforce/drag change, which is a much different effect, especially when it's not the overall angle change as per in that image but the change of the second element by a fixed distance to stall the entire wing, which that diagram is not at all relevant to.
However, if you are going to bring overall AoA into it, you'll also note that the lower element on the Mclaren is running very little AoA - it may be a deep wing but the front edge is lifted compared to such as Torro Rosso, (in fact, you can see that in your own photo), or the Red Bull, who you'd assume to be running similarly low DF, as below.

http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Re ... 957560.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HXbNyAz.jpg

Whether the extra camber hurts more than the AoA is one for the CFD guru's on here.

Okay I am going to need some further clarification here.

My original statement was that the drivers with a higher downforce rear wing (i.e. larger and/or steeper) would receive a larger kmh benefit from using DRS then drivers that had a very skinny low downforce rear wing.

Do you agree?

[diffuser]

Austria will be another nightmare. You really need a powerful PU on this track I expect another 12-14th for qualy and more or less the same for the race, if they dont have a failure.

Honestly that's what i expect for the majority of the remaining Races, right outside Top 10 on merit.....

WE have the edge on STR as we have tokens to spend on the Honda PU and they don't. We should move up ever so slightly.

[SR71]

Austria will be another nightmare. You really need a powerful PU on this track I expect another 12-14th for qualy and more or less the same for the race, if they dont have a failure.

Honestly that's what i expect for the majority of the remaining Races, right outside Top 10 on merit.....

WE have the edge on STR as we have tokens to spend on the Honda PU and they don't. We should move up ever so slightly.

Using the word "WE", can I assume you're a shareholder of McLaren? I love F1T and knowing that we have an owner of McLaren as a participant is great news!

[Thunder]

WE have the edge on STR as we have tokens to spend on the Honda PU and they don't. We should move up ever so slightly.

Well that has been said since the beginning of 2015. (more money, better in Season Development, Honda one of the biggest Engine Manufacturers in the World.....everything will be fine)

Don't get me wrong, i would love for the Team to find the magic Switch and get competitive again (and yes, constantly in the Top 10 on Merit would suffice for the Moment) but i just don't see Honda get on top of the PU Problems this Year.

@SR41: Ever heard of Fans identifying themselves with the Team they support? (Be it Football, Racing, Basketball......)
Nothing unusual here.

Edit:
On a more positive Note:

New McLaren F1 CEO Jost Capito expects to join for Belgian GP
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... belgian-gp

[techman]

Don't get me wrong, i would love for the Team to find the magic Switch and get competitive again (and yes, constantly in the Top 10 on Merit would suffice for the Moment) but i just don't see Honda get on top of the PU Problems this Year.

well to be honest , if mclaren had a chassis like redbull, podium were possible this season, , mclaren chassis need a lot of improvement to catch up. monaco a chassis circuit and mclaren struggle for pace, only luck they got the points as i have explained in my previous post what happen in monaco. you cant expect mclaren to compete with top 10 when chassis is average. next year with engine equalisation we will see how much the mclaren chassis defecit is, .

[CjC]

I just want to

[Thunder]

Podiums on Merit?

The Chassis is clearly not the best but i think you are underestimating it quite a bit.

[Logie]

I'm a McL fan, but I take what Eric says with a truck full of salt. Its clear there are more problems then jus the engine now.

Roll on 2017

[Andres125sx]

I'm a McL fan, but I take what Eric says with a truck full of salt

Sorry for the OT, but your variation of that common expression made me wonder where did that came from, I mean, the original "take that with a pinch of salt"

Anyone knows?

[Andres125sx]

Don't get me wrong, i would love for the Team to find the magic Switch and get competitive again (and yes, constantly in the Top 10 on Merit would suffice for the Moment) but i just don't see Honda get on top of the PU Problems this Year.

well to be honest , if mclaren had a chassis like redbull, podium were possible this season,

First of all, who would think McLaren has a chassis like Reb Bull? Red Bull has best chasis on the grid, not even most optimistic PR from Boullier said they´re close to best chassis, or even second, so your conditional looks a bit nosense to me

Second, even if it was, do you think Honda PU is similar to Renault? I don´t

[techman]

Second, even if it was, do you think Honda PU is similar to Renault? I don´t

Then please dont compare redbull with mclaren, compare the works mclaren honda with the works renault F1, and as you can see mclaren honda is faster than renault. if not for redbull , renault will not shine. both honda and renault are very close in power, if not for redbull chassis, renault will suffer the same fate as honda, people just blaming it without any basis. people are talking down honda becaues their is only one team honda are supplying, and we know how much ron has influence on this decision .renault are lucky to have redbull as the chassis to power, while their works team is struggling.

iam happy next year engine will be equalized, and we will see who are the most powerfull engine and the least and their will be no more blaming the engine for poor pace of the car

[Thunder]

So apparently Force India will bring no more Updates to the Car this Year. I'm very interested to see if (or when) McLaren can catch them.

[Vasconia]

Second, even if it was, do you think Honda PU is similar to Renault? I don´t

Then please dont compare redbull with mclaren, compare the works mclaren honda with the works renault F1, and as you can see mclaren honda is faster than renault. if not for redbull , renault will not shine. both honda and renault are very close in power, if not for redbull chassis, renault will suffer the same fate as honda, people just blaming it without any basis. people are talking down honda becaues their is only one team honda are supplying, and we know how much ron has influence on this decision .renault are lucky to have redbull as the chassis to power, while their works team is struggling.

iam happy next year engine will be equalized, and we will see who are the most powerfull engine and the least and their will be no more blaming the engine for poor pace of the car

Renault´s chasis is one of the worst ones and I think this car hasnt suffered a great evolution form last years Lotus which was not a good car at all.

But I agree with the fact that the improvement of Honda has been bigger(well the basis was so low) than Renault´s because this season is the third one for them. Its about time to start performing.

[Facts Only]

So apparently Force India will bring no more Updates to the Car this Year. I'm very interested to see if (or when) McLaren can catch them.

Naff all chance of that happening, they'll be doing well to beat Torro Rosso I think.

I think at best McLaren may catch up in terms of pace with FIF1 by then end of the season but FIF1 will still continue to score strongly for a good few races yet and other teams will switch their focus to 2017 pretty soon as well.

[Andres125sx]

Second, even if it was, do you think Honda PU is similar to Renault? I don´t

Then please dont compare redbull with mclaren, compare the works mclaren honda with the works renault F1,

Any reason for that? The fair comparison is between teams with similar budget, and that´s not the case with Renault and McLaren

Mclaren invest 100 M euros more than Renault:
http://www.f1journaal.be/index.php/nieu ... -f1-teams/

And 2016 project has never been a competitive project, as Andrew Benson explained here:

A protracted buy-out of Lotus not-long completed, a hacked-together car and an engine still short of performance, Renault's return to F1 will initially be difficult, have no doubt about that

Quote from here: http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/30913845

Past season budgets should also be taken into account, as that was the base for their current cars, and past season the difference is even higher, McLaren invested 465M€ while Lotus only 139M€
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/221835/1/f ... -most.html

So IMHO comparing Renault and McLaren is comparing apples to oranges. The only improvement Renault has done this season is on their PU department, and it has been a big improvement. Ask Red Bull. But the car is too poor


Probably it´s not fair comparing McHonda with any of them, as they´re best chassis and last or close to last one, but Renault PU has improved quite a lot this season, while Honda has improved a lot... on reliability, but perfomance wise they´re still far from any other PU, not as far as past season, but still quite far. Maybe not about peak power, but they are on fuel efficiency and ERS deployment, and that´s the most important part of current formula