Mercedes GP 2011

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wunderkind
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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JET,

I think Mercedes will quit F1 if the FIA is unable to rev up interests in new markets such as China, India, Russia, and the US. After all, F1 is a marketing tool for the car manufacturers. the only way to make it worthwhile for the big manufacturers is for the sport to be truly global in exposure. There are many holes which needs to be plugged. Bernie and his crew must find a way to rev up interests in the US and China very soon as the local promoters are sick of paying the exorbitant fees and racking up heavy losses.

I have been to the Shanghai race and I have to say the organization was superb. but the race track was just too far away from the centre of Shanghai and for many visitors, once is enough. I think South Korea is experiencing the same problem. The US has never fallen in love with F1 for whatever reason. Not sure if it's a north-and-south thing..........

I think I will start to worry for Mercedes if they don't pick up their game by mid 2013. But anything could happen with the new rules and Mercedes know it. they will give Brawn time. At least until it becomes clear they cannot win on a regular basis.

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Cocles
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Yes that was basically what Zetsche had said. And I hope you are right about Mercedes staying in F1, but I just dont see them blowing 250 million a year to be competitive...

...With the RRA being blown apart, Red Bull can literally burn cash and the others wont be able to do a thing about it.
It riles me that because of this, Mercedes-Benz involvement could come to an end.
The reasons are that they will not accept 4th forever....
@JET-- I think you need to re-read the statement Ferrari issued when they left. Not even Ferrari seems to want to go back 10 years ago to when championships were won by whoever burned through the most cash. I could also mention RBR, but frankly, why? If Ferrari doesn't want to go back to the "cash burning" era, then suffice to say F1 as a whole won't do it.

Ferrari is irritated with the state of the sport, and obviously believe they have more clout on their own (which, ironically, they probably do). Their issues though seem to be reasonable. The state of testing right now is asinine as it effectively prohibits driver training. As for the cars themselves, the current formula relies far too heavily on aerodynamics, a technology that doesn't translate too well to road cars. More testing? More mechanical grip? Yes please. And if done reasonably, that's not going to break HRT's bank, let alone MGP.

Although Ferrari's statement has been posted elsewhere, here are the good parts for our convenience:
“Some of the major achievements of the association during these years, also worked out in conjunction with the FIA, centered around cost reduction, which was of significant benefit to everyone, the big teams and the small ones. Ferrari was on the front line in this area, even before the birth of FOTA and it intends to continue down this route to ensure the sustainability of the sport in the long term. Now, however, it is necessary to find some new impetus to move it along because FOTA’s drive has run its course, despite the excellent work of current president, Martin Whitmarsh, in trying to reach agreement between the various positions for the common good.

“Ferrari will continue to work with the other teams to make the current RRA, Resource Restriction Agreement, aimed at controlling costs, more effective and efficient, modifying it to make it more stringent in key areas such as aerodynamics, to rebalance some aspects such as testing and to expand it to areas currently not covered such as engines.

“Formula One, like the rest of the world in fact, is currently going through a delicate period. Ferrari wants to work with all parties for the future of a sport that expresses the highest level of motor sport technology. We must return to a situation where Formula One is really a test bed for advanced technological research, the results of which can be transferred to Granturismo cars.

“In addition, we must not forget that this sport must become more user-friendly and more accessible to the general public and furthermore, it cannot be the only professional sport where it is practically impossible to do any training. The number of days of testing must be increased so that the drivers, especially the young ones who lack experience and the teams, can be adequately prepared, as well as providing more opportunities for them to come into contact with spectators and sponsors.”

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Cocles
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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It's now becoming more clear. Somehow I missed this earlier:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96614

Check out the very end. Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari, and Mercedes are all going to get together within the next two weeks to try to figure out the RRA on their own. Looks like the benevolent dictators have had enough of FOTA's stalemate.

@JET -- I wouldn't be so pessimistic when MGP now has 25% of the (albeit unofficial) vote.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Cocles wrote:It's now becoming more clear. Somehow I missed this earlier:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96614

Check out the very end. Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari, and Mercedes are all going to get together within the next two weeks to try to figure out the RRA on their own. Looks like the benevolent dictators have had enough of FOTA's stalemate.

@JET -- I wouldn't be so pessimistic when MGP now has 25% of the (albeit unofficial) vote.

Red bull will not bow. They have the most to lose from the RRA and will not relinquish accounts. Its fairly obvious that their actions in being coy over resources, the Dutch audit company being very suspicious of accounts they submitted, and also their ability to bring unique packages to every single race like floor wing and diffuser changes(every race).

The resources to do this are immense and do not even begin to account for Horners explanation of "efficiency". Brawn intimated as much at Monza questioning how it was possible when certain materials cost in excess of 800k per car. thats 1.6 million per race and over 30 million a year just from a specific area on the car.
Red Bulls explanations do not add up.

Im going to be pessimistic on this so that I can at least be surprised if it works out. But I wont hold my breath.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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The RRA as I understand it is legally binding, it's a contract that they all signed, binding up to 2017
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wunderkind
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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raymondu999 wrote:The RRA as I understand it is legally binding, it's a contract that they all signed, binding up to 2017
I think ALL FOTA members are bounded by the RRA, hence the reason why Red Bull and Ferrari are quitting FOTA.

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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@wunderkind I believe what you're saying is indeed true. But what I'm saying is different. I'm saying that Red Bull and Ferrari are still bound by the RRA as it's a contract they all legally signed, which binds them until 2017.
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Mr.S
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Ofcourse they are bound is another topic. But can they really be bound. Is there a watchdog that can bind them??

I think Mclaren outpacing RBR in in-season development has caused them to wake up. They will spending huge money & resources to hang on. As Marko said them staying in Formula1 depends on success. Unfortunately I dont see a long term success for RBR. I dont see any RBR car in 2021. If they dont provide a championship winning car 2-3 straight seasons Vettel will leave. RBR would sell & back out too.

It's all about success. Afterall they are a drinks company & not a manufacturer.

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Absolutely. RBR is a marketing exercise in a way. They're not in F1 for the technology; or even I daresay for the competition.
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Cocles
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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raymondu999 wrote:The RRA as I understand it is legally binding, it's a contract that they all signed, binding up to 2017
I understood it was the opposite... a gentleman's agreement. I'll Google around and see if I can find anything.

Either way, JET, I stand by what I originally said:
I could also mention RBR, but frankly, why? If Ferrari doesn't want to go back to the "cash burning" era, then suffice to say F1 as a whole won't do it.
RBR can scream and shout all they want, but if Ferrari wants some form of RRA and has the backing of both McLaren and Mercedes, guess what the FIA is going to do? RBR might as well be HRT in that situation.

It's not that I'm blindly betting on Mercedes in this situation, I'm betting on Ferrari.

If RBR won't bow then they'll break. And as long as Mercedes is in Ferrari's corner, I don't think Mercedes fans have much to worry about.

@JET, you have your 2014 prediction, so here's mine: By 2014, we'll already have an FIA enforced RRA in Formula 1 that was spearheaded by Ferrari.

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raymondu999
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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They're rebranding to Mercedes AMG Petronas next year.

Cocles - James Allen has confirmed it's a binding contract until 2017
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Good to see, and as predicted the AMG name makes it's f1 debut :D

Looking at mercedes marketing strategy, I think AMG will eventually take control of this venture, as well as funding it.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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FrukostScones
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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raymondu999 wrote:They're rebranding to Mercedes AMG Petronas next year
Yeah, Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 and the car will be called F1 W03.And Mercedes High Performance Engines Ltd.in Brixworth will be called Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains.
Marketing cretins at work! Why do you want to make your umbrella smaller? You are no in F1 just to promote AMGs? Or are the Chines/souteastAsians buying them in bulk... maybe yes. tze...
Maybe they want to transfer the image of innovation and lightness of F1 to their low tech AMG tanks. But do you want that the other way round?
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xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Good to see, and as predicted the AMG name makes it's f1 debut :D

Looking at mercedes marketing strategy, I think AMG will eventually take control of this venture, as well as funding it.
I wonder, didn't someone predict the "AMG"-branding a while back JET?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP 2011

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Low tech AMG tanks?

Have you not seen the all electric SLS?
More could have been done.
David Purley