Team: Christian Horner (TP), Adrian Newey (CTO), Peter Prodromou (HA), Rob Marshall (CD)
Drivers: Sebastian Vettel (5), Mark Webber (6)
who knows how they came up with that solution... obviously the radiator matrix is a multipass unit wich is not only split flow through the core top to bottom but also front to rear as well a quite complicated approach there ,with tubing galore running to the outer edges of the car and not keeping these close to the tub.....Just_a_fan wrote:It could be a smaller rad siamesed to the front of the larger main one. The small one for water feeding an oil cooler and the larger one being the engine coolant.
Would explain why the front one has smaller pipes that join closer together on the matrix.
Admittedly, a bit odd to have common end caps for this type of thing.
No fans anywhere, just using the speed of the car to cool the radiatorsGoran2812 wrote:do the rules say anything about fans on those radiators?
i remember seeing pics of cars in the past having a fan on each radiator...
did they just dump them to save weight and have more usable space or
are the things banned? having a fan would mean you could have smaller holes
in the sidepods and keep the temp of the engine more stable and more under
control... guessing about the last part...
I also fail to see why it looks like an add on. I think we can agree that the big tubes are always inlets. So the upward pointing smaller tubes (in fact for the flow they point downwards) are always outlets.by marcus
One more example where you can see :simply copying this mess would lead you nowhere as it is fairly obvious this happened more out of solving issues than it was originally on their plan....the lower upwards facing wateroutlet is an add on ...compare to the other very integrated solutions...I´´d guess originally they had only the top outlet but faced issues?
I don't really understand what you are trying to say, but to say that the inlet for hot water must be larger than the outled for cooled water, is not very believable. The same amount of water goes through both tubes, and if you close off the outlet, you will slow down the cooling outlet and rads will therefore run far hotter, causing engine to overheat! The flow MUST be at a constant and balanced rate, otherwise there would be problems.mep wrote:Somehow I fail to see why you think one is for oil.
I see that the big fat tubes on top meet into one single tube near the exhaust.
So there must be the same liquid in both tubes (hot water because of the big diameter). The two lower tubes can only be the exit of the water. They have smaller diameter because the water is colder but Compared to the big inlet pipes they both need to be exit pipes for water. Simply because a lot of volume goes into radiator so a lot must go out of it - the difference due to thermal expansion.
The radiator is split into a top and lower one. I guess the hot water will enter it on top and then will flow to the inside of the car. Then the colder will flow on the front of the radiator back to the outside of the car and into the exit pipes. The reason is because on the front the air is cold and can therefore still cool the cold water down. On the back side the air already got heated up but is still able to cool the hot water down.
The oil cooler is possible located on top of the gearbox. That’s why they have that massive opening at the end of their airbox.
I also fail to see why it looks like an add on. I think we can agree that the big tubes are always inlets. So the upward pointing smaller tubes (in fact for the flow they point downwards) are always outlets.by marcus
One more example where you can see :simply copying this mess would lead you nowhere as it is fairly obvious this happened more out of solving issues than it was originally on their plan....the lower upwards facing wateroutlet is an add on ...compare to the other very integrated solutions...I´´d guess originally they had only the top outlet but faced issues?
So when you have just the higher outlet its diameter will be to small compared to both big inlet tubes. So I guess you think they had just one of the big tubes.
1. When you have the lower big tube water must flow uphill to get to the higher outlet. How you force the water to do so without back mixing hot and cold water?
2. When you have just the higher outlet and the higher inlet the lower area of the radiator will not get used efficiently.
Any comments please…..
mep wrote:Somehow I fail to see why you think one is for oil.
sorry there I was referring to the Renault picture in this and obviously they have separate oil coolers sitting low behind the Waterrads.
I see that the big fat tubes on top meet into one single tube near the exhaust.
So there must be the same liquid in both tubes (hot water because of the big diameter). The two lower tubes can only be the exit of the water. They have smaller diameter because the water is colder but Compared to the big inlet pipes they both need to be exit pipes for water. Simply because a lot of volume goes into radiator so a lot must go out of it - the difference due to thermal expansion.
thermal expansion of water?You will not have too much delta in and outlet temp in through the core..and the volume will increase in a range of not even 4% over a range of 0-100°C so that cannot be the reason for difference in water pipe diameter..see table:
http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/8 ... omalie.png
The radiator is split into a top and lower one. I guess the hot water will enter it on top and then will flow to the inside of the car. Then the colder will flow on the front of the radiator back to the outside of the car and into the exit pipes. The reason is because on the front the air is cold and can therefore still cool the cold water down. On the back side the air already got heated up but is still able to cool the hot water down.
the in and outlets on the same side are there for a reason. It is a double pass radiator ,this is to keep the speed of the flow high and achieve turbulent flow ,which could be better for heat transfer with the tubes they use in the core...very
hard to tell without seeing the actual part.splitting up theflows does of course the exact opposite create two rads in one.
The oil cooler is possible located on top of the gearbox. That’s why they have that massive opening at the end of their airbox.
I also fail to see why it looks like an add on. I think we can agree that the big tubes are always inlets. So the upward pointing smaller tubes (in fact for the flow they point downwards) are always outlets.I´´m not sure if the top tubes are in or outlets .. reverse flow designs are common .by marcus
One more example where you can see :simply copying this mess would lead you nowhere as it is fairly obvious this happened more out of solving issues than it was originally on their plan....the lower upwards facing wateroutlet is an add on ...compare to the other very integrated solutions...I´´d guess originally they had only the top outlet but faced issues?
So when you have just the higher outlet its diameter will be to small compared to both big inlet tubes. So I guess you think they had just one of the big tubes.
Yes! and it is indeed siamesed very early after the bend ...so i guess the y had some issue with cooling efficiency and diverted flow to slow down cooling flows ,perhaps.
1. When you have the lower big tube water must flow uphill to get to the higher outlet. How you force the water to do so without back mixing hot and cold water?
under each and every of the beautyful welds there is vertical baffling to form the flow paths they need.So the Water tank we see is In and outlet plus these in and outlets are also completely devided. creating two separate double pass radiators in paralell ..in one assembly... quite elaborate... if they would not have the y-piece in the top tube one could think they have split up the water cooling in two circuits..but obviously it does not go that far.
2. When you have just the higher outlet and the higher inlet the lower area of the radiator will not get used efficiently.
Any comments please…..
I see that there are no fans, but i'm asking, are they allowed to have fans?Shrek wrote:No fans anywhere, just using the speed of the car to cool the radiatorsGoran2812 wrote:do the rules say anything about fans on those radiators?
i remember seeing pics of cars in the past having a fan on each radiator...
did they just dump them to save weight and have more usable space or
are the things banned? having a fan would mean you could have smaller holes
in the sidepods and keep the temp of the engine more stable and more under
control... guessing about the last part...
The oil cooler may well be situated on the RH, as for the Renault . It is not uncommon that the oil cooler is located behind the water radiator .mep wrote:
The oil cooler is possible located on top of the gearbox. That’s why they have that massive opening at the end of their airbox.
No.Goran2812 wrote:I see that there are no fans, but i'm asking, are they allowed to have fans?Shrek wrote:No fans anywhere, just using the speed of the car to cool the radiatorsGoran2812 wrote:do the rules say anything about fans on those radiators?
i remember seeing pics of cars in the past having a fan on each radiator...
did they just dump them to save weight and have more usable space or
are the things banned? having a fan would mean you could have smaller holes
in the sidepods and keep the temp of the engine more stable and more under
control... guessing about the last part...
I think fans for cooling were banned after the Brabham BT46B 'fan car' debacleGoran2812 wrote: I see that there are no fans, but i'm asking, are they allowed to have fans?
Just_a_fan wrote:I think fans for cooling were banned after the Brabham BT46B 'fan car' debacleGoran2812 wrote: I see that there are no fans, but i'm asking, are they allowed to have fans?
