Bahrain GP situation: postponed, reinstated, cancelled

[Mr Alcatraz]

I don't believe he has any interest in getting back in with the FIA, but he certainly has interest in making Jean Todt look like he's floundering.

That's what I thought it was initially but then I asked my self why. What is Mosley's motivation for doing this? Jean Todt was Mosley's candidate of choice for the FIA presidency.

Like I said, it is a wild theory but .....

Mosley is still part of the FIA. He is one of 10 members of their senate. Being someone so closely involved for years his opinion is still asked for and given. Mosley doesn't need to be directly asked to know that people want his opinion as well.

Mosley saying what he wants, par for the course.

I have I slightly different take on why MM has spoken on this situation than all theories put forth on this page.
MM is a very astute, I would even go as far as to say brilliant legal mind.
I think he understands that this is a matter that will be damaging to F1's image.
After having had his personal life violated, and is associated with the FIA in a much less powerful position, is going on record as backing the moral high ground.
JMH conspiracy theory.

BTW J. Todt has proved to my satisfaction that he is a vastly superior team racing director than he is being the Capo of the FIA syndicate.

[PlatinumZealot]

"Better that we move Bahrain to the end of the season and, if things are safe and well, then that is fine, we can go. If they are not, then we don't go and there are no problems."

Simple suggestion by Mr. Ecclestone.

That's all that should matter when it comes to sport/entertainment.

[Richard]

We also have no idea of many of the circumstances surrounding the deaths. Looking at the list of casualties http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Bahra ... Casualties what struck me is that these deaths have not been a Tiananmen square style massacre, but a series of small individual incidents over a period of time.

I thought the footage of armoured vehicles and military moving into an open square filled with protesters' tents and opening fire was eerily similar to Tienanmen. Admittedly not all deaths occurred in that one event. Others were witnessed on mobile phone footage of police firing randomly at crowds on other days. Others occurred when police sealed off the hospitals so people could not access healthcare.

All of this in the weeks before the GP, hence the GP was cancelled. No relative moral judgement required, it was simply no place for tourism.

[andrew]

Mosley is still part of the FIA. He is one of 10 members of their senate. Being someone so closely involved for years his opinion is still asked for and given. Mosley doesn't need to be directly asked to know that people want his opinion as well.

Mosley saying what he wants, par for the course.

Completely forgot that he was part of the FIA Senate.

However, I am still suspicious. He has been quiet for a long time (except with his court cases, but that is a whole other can of worms) so why pipe up now? If he is this concerned about human rights, then he should be protesting against the Chinese GP and the Indian GP. Maybe he is just jumping on a popular bandwagon, but he looks like he is trying to undermine Jean Todt. No doubt the truth will out eventually.

"Better that we move Bahrain to the end of the season and, if things are safe and well, then that is fine, we can go. If they are not, then we don't go and there are no problems."

Simple suggestion by Mr. Ecclestone.

That's all that should matter when it comes to sport/entertainment.

Yep, couldn't agree more with MrE.

[Richard]

Mosley expressed his concern that it would be damaging to F1's reputation. I don't think he made any comment about human rights, he was commenting on how the sport would be perceived by sponsors and supporters. He also commented on the disruption to the teams.

Mosley is too canny to be sucked into arguments of moral equivalence.

[Ciro Pabón]

Mr. Ecclestone position seems to me a tad stupid and I think it goes against an open and CLEAR competition.

What happens if there is a difference of 1 point (let's say Hamilton resurrects) and then they cancel the race? I WON'T participate in that thread.

It can be messy.

Now, for the human right defendants, let's say that Bahrain opposition AGREES with the GP. Here is the Al Jazeera program on the subject, where three Bahrainis (is that the correct word?) from different parties and religions say so:

FIA: putting money before morality?

As for the comments on what I smoke, I repeat: if you expect me to make "regular comments", one line long, you can wait. Please, have a seat, it's going to be a long wait.

Good question, Richard Leeds.

You make me ask myself if Mosley has morals he can talk about.

I'd say he hasn't, at least, the ones in vogue around Britain. You know, "mores" in latin means "custom", and by that, it means "custom of the people". Morality depends on the epoch and the uses around you. That's why I don't see why you have to obey them, except in search of friendship and peace with your neighbors. If you use a miniskirt in a certain country in a certain age, you can be immoral.

Now, the question I would like to ask to Mr. Mosley is not if he has a moral (he hasn't, according to the previous definition) but if he has an ethic position that deserves to be mentioned. A very different proposition. According to theory, ethic is eternal, moral isn't.

... and FIA ethic is very feeble. Money, money is everything in that world. It's enough to see what's going on at FIFA right now and ask yourself if the conditions aren't the same at FIA.

[Richard]

Ciro, my only question was about the joy of a mixed metaphor, I'm not sure how that relates to morals.

To address one of your points, the FIA is open that FOM's goals are unashamedly commercial.

Meanwhile FIFA puts up a sham that is motivated by pure olympian ideals.

[SiLo]

If we do have that situation at the end of the year, where there is a chance that someone else can win the championship because there is one race left, said race is reinstated then taken away, what happens? I would be annoyed because final race showdowns are always epic.

[myurr]

We also have no idea of many of the circumstances surrounding the deaths. Looking at the list of casualties http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Bahra ... Casualties what struck me is that these deaths have not been a Tiananmen square style massacre, but a series of small individual incidents over a period of time.

I thought the footage of armoured vehicles and military moving into an open square filled with protesters' tents and opening fire was eerily similar to Tienanmen. Admittedly not all deaths occurred in that one event. Others were witnessed on mobile phone footage of police firing randomly at crowds on other days. Others occurred when police sealed off the hospitals so people could not access healthcare.

All of this in the weeks before the GP, hence the GP was cancelled. No relative moral judgement required, it was simply no place for tourism.

And yet the greatest number of people killed in any one day in Bahrain was 4. This compares to the 241 killed and 7,000 injured in the Tiananmen square masacre in the official figures, or the up to 800 killed in some reports or even as many as 3,000 killed if you take the Russian figures. Or the 2+ killed each and every day of the year in India because of police torture whilst they are in custody.

I don't disagree that it was right that the Bahrain GP was cancelled. What really annoys me is all the outrage at its reinstatement whilst other country's far worse actions pass without mention.

I also believe, for reasons that I've stated a couple of times now, that not having the GP for moral reasons will do more harm than good.

Edit: As recently as 2009, the 20th anniversary year, the Chinese government stated to the UN that they felt actions at Tiananmen Square massacre were "necessary and correct".

[myurr]

If we do have that situation at the end of the year, where there is a chance that someone else can win the championship because there is one race left, said race is reinstated then taken away, what happens? I would be annoyed because final race showdowns are always epic.

That would also leave the FIA open to charges of manipulation or favouritism if one driver is gifted the championship by a last minute cancellation. They need to have the courage to rule one way or the other and then have the conviction to see it through unless there is a serious safety risk.

[Richard]

Myurr - that was a perfect example of the dangers of moral equivalence. Admittedly a little extreme to compare the deliberate tightly controlled actions of small autocratic city state with the chaotic conditions of 1.2bn people.

I think we're saying the same thing?

Next week on f1technical ... Is chalk far sweeter than cheese? Does cheese have a far worse texture than chalk?

[Ciro Pabón]

Wensleydale?

[ringo]

Nobody is perfect, everyone has their skeletons in the closest.

Lest's just run the race. Those who don't want to see it, you can tell us you wont be watching it (even though i know they'll watch it in secret).

If a team doesn't want to go, then no one is forcing them. Points are there to gain, and those who need the points will go and get them.
(even though i know they'll flip flop if they need the points; i'm watching you Mark Webber!).

Mosley trying to build some momentum, real politician :
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/sp ... ?hpt=hp_c2

[andrew]

Next week on f1technical ... Is chalk far sweeter than cheese? Does cheese have a far worse texture than chalk?

Depends on the cheese.

[callmekart]

I think it should be postponed to March 2012..