2012 Monaco GP - Monte Carlo

[Tommy Cookers]

In an interview at Jaguar F1 about 10 years ago their Chief Aerodynamicist told me that their aero was rubbish (as the team didn't have their own tunnel, the aero work was contracted out to a tunnel (in another country) that was too small for its models), and their wings more or less stalled under braking at angles of attack that were dictated by said tunnel ....... and that was the reason why their only podium was at Monaco, because rubbish aero didn't matter there !

[PlatinumZealot]

Sorta true.. There was a wing that Mclaren used in 2009 that can be best described as a Park Bench!


http://mercedesbenzblogphotodb.wordpres ... -monaco-2/

[Shrieker]

But, ultimately, where Tommy is wrong is that in F1 "high downforce" circuits are circuits at which the cars are set up to generate a high amount of downforce at a unit speed, not circuits where the downforce generated at max speed on that circuit is maximised.

The crux of the matter which Tommy misses. There isn't a straight in monaco where high drag caused by a high df setup is a problem (aero efficiency). So you crank the wings all the way up. Whereas in Monza you need to take aero efficiency into consideration, because if you increase the wing angle too much it'll cost you in straights.

So Tommy, at a given x kph for both occasions, a car set up for Monaco ( where the wings are cranked all the way up) will generate more df than a car set up for Monza ( where the wings aren't cranked all the way up).

Maximum straightline speed = Low downforce config (Monza).
Maximum downforce = High downforce config (Monaco).

Simple, no ?

[beelsebob]

In an interview at Jaguar F1 about 10 years ago their Chief Aerodynamicist told me that their aero was rubbish (as the team didn't have their own tunnel, the aero work was contracted out to a tunnel (in another country) that was too small for its models), and their wings more or less stalled under braking at angles of attack that were dictated by said tunnel ....... and that was the reason why their only podium was at Monaco, because rubbish aero didn't matter there !

Rubbish aero meaning aero that is inefficient, not aero that doesn't work.

[ESPImperium]

Maximum straightline speed = Low downforce config (Monza).
Maximum downforce = High downforce config (Monaco).

Monaco is all about dirty downforce, its downforce at any cost. Monza can see you have downforce and be competitive, however it is all about aero efficiency. Monaco is where you can get away with a high lift to drag co-efficient and Monza is about a set up that has a low lift to drag co efficient. In Monza you can create lift as long as you have very little drag. Monaco is a track where you have to take as much lift as you can with disregard for how much drag you create.

However its great to see Monaco with the tunnel exit bump gone and sorted out. All that is needed is for the Swimming Pool area to get sorted, but it is that damned statue that is causing the problem, it can't be moved seemingly. However there is a team of engineers looking at a remodel of the swimming pool section again, as well as a new purpose built pits and start finish straight on land that will be reclaimed from the sea. In effect it would mean that the corner before the tunnel would become turn 3.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

DRS zone for the Race. Detection point is T17 and Activation is exit of T19 (beginning of start finish straight)

[Chuckjr]

DRS zone for the Race. Detection point is T17 and Activation is exit of T19 (beginning of start finish straight)

Well that's gonna make Ste Devote VERY busy this year. I suspect we will have a number of safety car laps! The lottery just got even more complex!

[beelsebob]

DRS zone for the Race. Detection point is T17 and Activation is exit of T19 (beginning of start finish straight)

Well that's gonna make Ste Devote VERY busy this year. I suspect we will have a number of safety car laps! The lottery just got even more complex!

No more than last year... Of course, we did get a couple of bumps into T1 last year, so maybe you have a point.

[FrukostScones]

DRS zone for the Race. Detection point is T17 and Activation is exit of T19 (beginning of start finish straight)

isn't this nearly the same as last year?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Monaco setup and overall technical information from former Ferrari Engineer Luigi Mazzola

Back to Monaco and talk of upgrading. It is not easy to find a good balance in Monte Carlo, because the circuit is very full of slow curves, changes of direction, both fast (Piscine) slow (chicane after the tunnel), and average curves. All of this topped off with low grip dirty asphalt and short straights. All this makes it necessary to put on the car all the downforce available even at the expense of reducing the aerodynamic efficiency – in other words, accepting high drag levels – because what you earn in curve is much more than what you lose in the short straights.

From the point of view aerobalance, normally you set very low values, with little front wing, to give more stability to the rear. From the point of view of stiffness you choose springs and anti-roll bars very soft to give confidence to the driver and ensure that the car can pass over the bump and curbs without upsetting the car too much.

What matters most is for the driver to trust the car, so he can drive with the automatic mind almost unconscious so to speak. And this is a very important element. Initially: Set the car with understeer, and then gradually balance it to gain performance, it is a good exercise that requires a lot of collaboration between the pilot and his engineers. For example, there is another aspect that is typical of Monte Carlo: the steering angle. Thanks to the very slow curves of Loewe and Rascasse, cars must have a much more precise steering, so as to ensure - equal to steering wheel angle - an angle much larger wheels; would otherwise make the curve into two parts using the reverse gear!

All this, however, introduces a very important for the rider, a car much more responsive to steering making it harder to drive. Try to think of having the usual volume knob: If after you've used to adjust and then suddenly – every click – instead of increasing the volume of increase of 1 click, it increased 3 clicks, you would have surely difficulty in finding the desired volume. The driver who will drive to Monte Carlo, where the walls are very close, with a much more direct steering must be adapted as soon as possible.

Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Kimi could make a difference and I'm curious to see Maldonado and Grosjean. As a Engineer, I always believe in the Red Bull and McLaren. But if Lotus would gain more winning mentality, they could win. Ferrari has a very strong driver in Alonso, and if Ferrari should strike a balance set-up, they could possibly win. All this, allowing tires.


This is only part of the article. It can be found in it's entirety Here


edit: @Tommy Cookers he was wrong. Monaco is a high downforce track. Furthermore, DF is much needed at Monaco and he said "DF isn't a dominator". Which is wrong in and of itself at Monaco. I think you can see from others comments you have the description backwards and it is indeed a "high downforce" track. Good day.

[PlatinumZealot]

Nice.

[raymondu999]

In an interview at Jaguar F1 about 10 years ago their Chief Aerodynamicist told me that their aero was rubbish (as the team didn't have their own tunnel, the aero work was contracted out to a tunnel (in another country) that was too small for its models), and their wings more or less stalled under braking at angles of attack that were dictated by said tunnel ....... and that was the reason why their only podium was at Monaco, because rubbish aero didn't matter there !

If your car has a downforce deficit, it matters LESS in Monaco. But it still matters. Regardless of what your car's characteristics are, plumbing on downforce will help your Monaco laptime, regardless of the drag it generates. Not so much for the apex speeds which are tiny anyways, but more for traction and braking.

both fast (Piscine) slow (chicane after the tunnel), and average curves.

Isn't Piscine the slow, tight right and left before Rascasse? I've always called that the Piscine and the high speed chicane after Tabac the swimming pool. (More officially known as Louis Chiron AFAIK)

Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Kimi could make a difference and I'm curious to see Maldonado and Grosjean.

I find it very interesting he singles out these 4 drivers (all world champions, has to be said) and adds in proviso two more inexperienced drivers. I do agree somewhat that Lotus is probably best placed in terms of driver combo for the circuit. Has to be said that McLaren and Red Bull's drivers have consecutively won the last 4 races here though - with each of their race drivers having 1 Monaco win to their name. (Even more interesting to me is that two of them - Hamilton and Vettel - won the races in part thanks to a mistake that lead to a strategy that looked dodgy but turned out to be a winning strategy)

[volarchico]

After watching the video from the previous page, what is with the big donuts in the middle of the chicanes now? I understand people didn't like people cutting the chicane, but aren't they just a safety hazard? Before, if someone cut the chicane, they'd survive to drive another day (and give the place back), but now it's just more cause for a safety car!

And to throw my $0.02 into the "high/low" downforce debate, Monaco high speed (from the track graphic on pg 1 of this thread) is 282 km/hr, whereas Monza is 336. Compare their squares, and it's only 1.42x difference in total downforce for a given coefficient. Do the "park benches" of Monaco give an increase of 1.4x the coefficient of downforce? It's possible. So I definitely would NOT argue that Monaco is low df.

Throwing my hat into the "high df" ring for that reason, as well as the fact that as others have posted, it's also a track that requires higher levels of downforce for a given speed than others because the efficiency isn't as important with no long straights.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Isn't Piscine the slow, tight right and left before Rascasse? I've always called that the Piscine and the high speed chicane after Tabac the swimming pool. (More officially known as Louis Chiron AFAIK)


I find it very interesting he singles out these 4 drivers (all world champions, has to be said) and adds in proviso two more inexperienced drivers. I do agree somewhat that Lotus is probably best placed in terms of driver combo for the circuit. Has to be said that McLaren and Red Bull's drivers have consecutively won the last 4 races here though - with each of their race drivers having 1 Monaco win to their name. (Even more interesting to me is that two of them - Hamilton and Vettel - won the races in part thanks to a mistake that lead to a strategy that looked dodgy but turned out to be a winning strategy)

Accelerating up to 225 km/h (140 mph),[7] the cars reach Piscine, a fast left-right followed by a slower right-left chicane which takes the cars past the swimming pool that gave its name to the corner.

Link

As far McLaren & Red Bull go, he says as an Engineer you always believe in McLaren & Red Bull.

[raymondu999]

This map begs to differ though:

Accelerating up to 225 km/h (140 mph),[7] the cars reach Piscine, a fast left-right followed by a slower right-left chicane which takes the cars past the swimming pool that gave its name to the corner.

Link

As someone once told me

Wiki is your source? Yeah cause they couldn't be wrong, lol. You should really hop off your high horse.