2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Phil
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Phillyred wrote:Rosberg is Hamilton's Massa. The season hasn't evolved far enough for Rosberg to realize this yet. Interesting to see what happens over at Ferrari if Massa continues to outperform Alonso.
I'm not that sure to be honest... In the eyes of Ross Brawn and parts of the team this might be true or valid, but Nikki Lauda and to some degree Totto Wolf, I'm not so sure. Nikki Lauda has a very strong link to the RTL Formula 1 broadcast (he's a moderator there, despite his link to the Mercedes GP team), but RTL answers to a very big German fan base, where the link to Rosberg is naturally bigger than to Hamilton. I think prior to the season, a majority of people voted on Bild.de that they believe that Rosberg would have the upper hand in regards to Hamilton. Given the kind of newspaper Bild.de is, I would think this shows that those readers have a strong link to their own drivers. Nikki Lauda nor Mercedes can allow themselves to show any signs of favoritism towards Hamilton in light of their German supporters.

When watching the post-race interviews of the Malaysian GP, this was very apparent in light of the team orders and that Nikki Lauda was asked some very hard questions and he, in front of TV, made it clear he did not agree with the teams decision to not let Rosberg pass. Later, it turns out - neither he, nor Wolff (who joined the interview) had all the facts Brawn did at the time. Rosbergs and Hamiltons gracefull interviews also helped in that not a huge deal was made of it - and the fact the focus was on Webber/Vettel.

From a drivers perspective, I do also think Hamilton will have the edge of Rosberg over the entire season. I've still been quite surprised by his pace, new team for Hamilton or not. At McLaren, I remember Hamilton usually having the upper hand through out all Qualifying sessions. So far, in the last two races, watching Qualifying, it definately seemed to be it was the other way around until Hamilton pulled out something special - be it be because of the changing conditions, his set-up or simply bigger balls / more risk, I don't know. I'll be interested to see how China turns out.

Just my 2 cents.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Mika1
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Phil wrote:
Phillyred wrote:Rosberg is Hamilton's Massa. The season hasn't evolved far enough for Rosberg to realize this yet. Interesting to see what happens over at Ferrari if Massa continues to outperform Alonso.
I'm not that sure to be honest... In the eyes of Ross Brawn and parts of the team this might be true or valid, but Nikki Lauda and to some degree Totto Wolf, I'm not so sure. Nikki Lauda has a very strong link to the RTL Formula 1 broadcast (he's a moderator there, despite his link to the Mercedes GP team), but RTL answers to a very big German fan base, where the link to Rosberg is naturally bigger than to Hamilton. I think prior to the season, a majority of people voted on Bild.de that they believe that Rosberg would have the upper hand in regards to Hamilton. Given the kind of newspaper Bild.de is, I would think this shows that those readers have a strong link to their own drivers. Nikki Lauda nor Mercedes can allow themselves to show any signs of favoritism towards Hamilton in light of their German supporters.

When watching the post-race interviews of the Malaysian GP, this was very apparent in light of the team orders and that Nikki Lauda was asked some very hard questions and he, in front of TV, made it clear he did not agree with the teams decision to not let Rosberg pass. Later, it turns out - neither he, nor Wolff (who joined the interview) had all the facts Brawn did at the time. Rosbergs and Hamiltons gracefull interviews also helped in that not a huge deal was made of it - and the fact the focus was on Webber/Vettel.

From a drivers perspective, I do also think Hamilton will have the edge of Rosberg over the entire season. I've still been quite surprised by his pace, new team for Hamilton or not. At McLaren, I remember Hamilton usually having the upper hand through out all Qualifying sessions. So far, in the last two races, watching Qualifying, it definately seemed to be it was the other way around until Hamilton pulled out something special - be it be because of the changing conditions, his set-up or simply bigger balls / more risk, I don't know. I'll be interested to see how China turns out.

Just my 2 cents.
I wouldn't take Bild Zeitung too serious.
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Gridlock
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Joined: 27 Jan 2012, 04:14

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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mx_tifoso wrote:Are F1 teams able to build a wall like Yamaha did with Lorenzo and Rossi?
Interesting question, will have a look at the Regs. I doubt it and I doubt any would even if were allowed.

Has there been a pit garage engaged in more open warfare than McLaren 2007? Those measures were fairly extreme toward the end of the season.

The fact that Horner is still giving orders suggests that either everyone is damn sure going to obey them, or there won't be any more. Otherwise his position would be the definition of untenable.
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stefan_
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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ringo
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Phil wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:Will be hard for ROS outqualifying HAM. Maybe, maybe.
You think so? We've only had two races so far, and I for one, have been quite surprised at Rosbergs strong pace during qualifying. Even if it doesn't account for much, but Rosberg has shown exceptional pace (relative to Hamilton) in most practice sessions and Q1 and Q2. Then, in Q3 Hamilton had the edge - both sessions in changing conditions, which Rosberg later was disappointed about. I think in constant conditions, like a dry qualifying session, they could be even closer to each other.

I think this is going to be neck at neck. I'm actually a Lewis supporter, so I hope to be wrong, but I though Rosberg has been usually quite strong in China.

Hamilton has a way of hiding his pace. I think he learnt this being at mclaren with Button. mclaren had that open garage policy where a lot of data is shared. I feel he's only going to show his true form in Q3 from here on out with Rosberg.
I remember when Button would directly benefit from Hamilton's data, I don't think Hamilton wants to give Rosberg that luxury, and neither will Rosberg want to give Hamilton that luxury seeing as though rosberg knows more about the team and how their cars are.
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Chuckjr
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Do team mates have access to each others telemetry during a race weekend or are those facts hidden from the other? It seems if they were accessible, in this case Rosburg could see where Hammy is getting the edge, or vice versa...
Watching F1 since 1986.

RB7ate9
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Chuckjr wrote:Do team mates have access to each others telemetry during a race weekend or are those facts hidden from the other? It seems if they were accessible, in this case Rosburg could see where Hammy is getting the edge, or vice versa...
It's the team's data. As a team, they would want to get a look at all the data to improve both cars to their maximum potential to get more points per race.

Or at least that's the logical argument. Who knows how the politics really are.

Darknight
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Wednesday and no pictures yet?

beelsebob
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Chuckjr wrote:Do team mates have access to each others telemetry during a race weekend or are those facts hidden from the other? It seems if they were accessible, in this case Rosburg could see where Hammy is getting the edge, or vice versa...
Yes they do – in fact, at Malaysia, there was a team radio message to hamilton during one of the practice sessions:
HAM: "Where am I losing it?"
Brawn: "Mostly in sector 3"

So yes the team is at least sharing vague data between the drivers, I would be very surprised if they were not sharing everything.

simieski
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Chuckjr wrote:Do team mates have access to each others telemetry during a race weekend or are those facts hidden from the other? It seems if they were accessible, in this case Rosburg could see where Hammy is getting the edge, or vice versa...
If you recall Hamiltons infamous tweet from Spa last year he certainly had access to Button's telemetry.
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Vasconia
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Unc1e_M0nty wrote:
Vasconia wrote: Anyone expects to see Massa beating Alonso once again on Saturday qualy? :P
Yes I do, and this would be the 5th time on the trot, I'm not a Massa fan but this is quite a turn around for him.

I for one want to see a dry qually so we can get a clear picture of their one lap pace.

The Rosbery & Hamilton battle is intresting, I think Hamilton will always have the edge over a single lap, like Vettel he always seems to have that little extra when needed.
I think Nico can be as faster as Lewis and Seb are, or at least he can be very very close. The main problem with Nico is that sometimes seems to fail when he is under pressure, mainly in Q3. If he want to be a winner he has to be able to reach his edge in that moments.

Trulli was in 2004 faster than Alonso until almost the end of the season, and the spaniard doesnt tolerate too easily these sort of situations.

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Unc1e_M0nty
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Vasconia wrote: I think Nico can be as faster as Lewis and Seb are, or at least he can be very very close. The main problem with Nico is that sometimes seems to fail when he is under pressure, mainly in Q3. If he want to be a winner he has to be able to reach his edge in that moments.
This is the crux of it, being able to deliver when the pressure is on, and when it matters most - usally at the very end of Q3 when the track is at it's fastest.

As for Rosberg being more familiar with the team & car, I dont think this matters a jot, Lewis is no rookie - he's driven good & bad cars before, it's a level paying field.

Mika1
Mika1
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Unc1e_M0nty wrote:
Vasconia wrote: I think Nico can be as faster as Lewis and Seb are, or at least he can be very very close. The main problem with Nico is that sometimes seems to fail when he is under pressure, mainly in Q3. If he want to be a winner he has to be able to reach his edge in that moments.
This is the crux of it, being able to deliver when the pressure is on, and when it matters most - usally at the very end of Q3 when the track is at it's fastest.

As for Rosberg being more familiar with the team & car, I dont think this matters a jot, Lewis is no rookie - he's driven good & bad cars before, it's a level paying field.
I disagree. Hamilton was always part of McLaren, he needed time to adapt as he said.
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raymondu999
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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DRS:
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iotar__
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Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

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Phillyred wrote:Rosberg is Hamilton's Massa. The season hasn't evolved far enough for Rosberg to realize this yet. Interesting to see what happens over at Ferrari if Massa continues to outperform Alonso.
Is it the same Rosberg that finished just behind in the last race only thanks to team orders? Just because Sky type media chose to pretend that it did not happen we should pretend, too and it was all good, old pure racing?

BTW wouldn't it be closer to say Hamilton's Button :wink: , unless you want to throw Alonso/Massa into everything. We've heard all that before when Button joined McL, "annihilated", "no match" and so on. Didn't happen then and won't happen now. Rosberg should be fine, especially in China. One: he is better over one lap than Button, or at least he should be on average. Two, if you mean team's preferential treatment, Mercedes can't afford to play games, for now at least. It's too competitive in F1 at the moment.

It doesn't mean they didn't try. I agree with McNish that it wasn't "just to be safe" call and it meant something. I think Rosberg knew what was going on, that's why he was arguing longer than it was needed. Rosberg is a smart guy and dynamic of this radio exchange was very telling. For some time at least it won't matter and in a way this whole mess might help him. More spotlight and scrutiny.

On a related subject Red Bull never fail to disappoint when it comes to comedy value with their "no team orders" announcement (unless it's a bad translation/misquoting/out of context, I didn't check the original article). Not again :wtf: They are desperately trying to avoid "Red Bull gives you someone else's wings" type of publicity with their cool, hip brand. While doing exactly the opposite to what they say. Good thing they can always pit Webber if he's in front.