2017 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai 07-09 April

[Sieper]

I heard that when it is foggy (too foggy to fly/land at a hospital) that no emergency helicopter airflift services fly at all in any country. So on a foggy day if we drive on the highway and we do crash (because of a sudden fog bank?) we day to day drivers do risk our lives. Not saying that F1 should though.

[Vasconia]

F1 teams to discuss moving Chinese GP to Saturday

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-t ... ay-890553/

I hope it doesn´t happen. This would make F1 a joke.

Well, last time some one died

Please don´t be demagogue, with this reasoning all the wet races should be suspended. They should find an alternativ, this is F1, they have resources to do it.

[evered7]

I hope it doesn´t happen. This would make F1 a joke.

Well, last time some one died

Please don´t be demagogue, with this reasoning all the wet races should be suspended. They should find an alternativ, this is F1, they have resources to do it.

If the same conditions continue, the race will not happen for the exact same reason that the Practice session didn't.

So a Saturday race or a no race is what we may need to decide on.

Will go for a Saturday race every single time.

[LookBackTime]

https://twitter.com/thebuxtonblog/statu ... 8902164480

[GoranF1]

Why isnt this thread sticked?

[1158]

Moving the race to Sat might actually work. The surface high over the Korean peninsula expands south as the first wave/front depart and the second approaches. This should increase mixing heights/transports winds enough to raise the visibility. Sun looks similar to Fri, with another weak surface wave/front moving in. Would be easier to know if the mixing height/transport winds increase enough if I had some vertical profile data but currently I don't have access to any. I've seen similar patterns on wildfires where during the transition day the visibility increases and the smoke mixes out.

[Vasconia]

Well, last time some one died

Please don´t be demagogue, with this reasoning all the wet races should be suspended. They should find an alternativ, this is F1, they have resources to do it.

If the same conditions continue, the race will not happen for the exact same reason that the Practice session didn't.

So a Saturday race or a no race is what we may need to decide on.

Will go for a Saturday race every single time.

A day change could be very problematic because many people could only assist on Sunday so the organisation may face lots of money back requests. I think they wil try to stick to the original plan unless the weather forecast make it clear that the race will be suspended.

[SparkyAMG]

F1 is a global phenomenon but it it's still a tiny fraction of what goes on every day. It isn't important or powerful enough to shut down a significant portion of a major city in order to create a 38km emergency route, and we certainly shouldn't be angry about that!

It isn't? You might want to read this article by forbes then.

In there, it is estimated that to host an F1 race, it costs > 40 million. That is substantial. But still, many countries are interested in hosting such an event, because it enhances their image. Just look at what Singapore did and how it propelled their image. Huge costs yes, but it has also proven to be quite an investment that has enhanced the image which in turn has brought more business to the country overall. It's hard to measures what the benefits are.

Staging a race and then not having it go through because a medical helicopter can't land at the designated hospital is not good when you are spending that amount of money to host the race in the first place. How much would it cost to close down the local route to the nearest hospital in comparison?

What I was referring to is specifically the fact that it cannot be done in Shanghai. F1 has asked and China said no.

In terms of monetry cost to close down a route, you're right that it would probably be an insignificant portion of the total cost to host a race, but we're not just talking about a local route, as you put it.

By road, the journey is about 25 miles around and through a major city. It's roughly the equivalent of driving from where I am in Essex into Liverpool Street in London. I won't get into the logistics and impact of closing such a route but you'll see that it's not that simple.

[FrukostScones]

I hope it doesn´t happen. This would make F1 a joke.

Well, last time some one died

Please don´t be demagogue, with this reasoning all the wet races should be suspended. They should find an alternativ, this is F1, they have resources to do it.

The Taifun back then was very well predicted, only $ , and apart Form that Helikopter couldnt Land tospital. Sthis sunday Problem wont be too muchrainbut mist and fog, and no Helikopter.. So in FP they cancel, but race will go on because oft $$$, what Standards are those?

[bauc]

Would still be better than cancelling the race on sunday bc of bad weather...

anyways I am excited about the race! Little FP normally guarantees an exciting race.

Agreed, we will have a great race regardless when will it be (SAT or SUN)

[godlameroso]

Moving the race to Sat might actually work. The surface high over the Korean peninsula expands south as the first wave/front depart and the second approaches. This should increase mixing heights/transports winds enough to raise the visibility. Sun looks similar to Fri, with another weak surface wave/front moving in. Would be easier to know if the mixing height/transport winds increase enough if I had some vertical profile data but currently I don't have access to any. I've seen similar patterns on wildfires where during the transition day the visibility increases and the smoke mixes out.

There won't be the same kind of fog we saw in fp1 and 2. Remember Shanghai is close to the sea, in this case the difference between sea and land convection is reduced by the overlapping fronts.

[Phil]

F1 is a global phenomenon but it it's still a tiny fraction of what goes on every day. It isn't important or powerful enough to shut down a significant portion of a major city in order to create a 38km emergency route, and we certainly shouldn't be angry about that!

It isn't? You might want to read this article by forbes then.

In there, it is estimated that to host an F1 race, it costs > 40 million. That is substantial. But still, many countries are interested in hosting such an event, because it enhances their image. Just look at what Singapore did and how it propelled their image. Huge costs yes, but it has also proven to be quite an investment that has enhanced the image which in turn has brought more business to the country overall. It's hard to measures what the benefits are.

Staging a race and then not having it go through because a medical helicopter can't land at the designated hospital is not good when you are spending that amount of money to host the race in the first place. How much would it cost to close down the local route to the nearest hospital in comparison?

What I was referring to is specifically the fact that it cannot be done in Shanghai. F1 has asked and China said no.

In terms of monetry cost to close down a route, you're right that it would probably be an insignificant portion of the total cost to host a race, but we're not just talking about a local route, as you put it.

By road, the journey is about 25 miles around and through a major city. It's roughly the equivalent of driving from where I am in Essex into Liverpool Street in London. I won't get into the logistics and impact of closing such a route but you'll see that it's not that simple.

Sorry, I guess we misunderstood each other then. BTW; I wasn't suggesting the route to the hospital where the helicopter can't land. From what I understand, the problems are two fold:

1.) A hospital must be reached within 20 minutes (tested between FP1 and FP2 by the FIA and wasn't possible due to traffic)
2.) The designated hospital (I assume the one in Shanghai) must be accessible via helicopter

From what I understood on the ORF broadcast (the Austrian FP2 live coverage), the designed hospital is one closer to Shanghai and that was the problem as the helicopter can't land due to fog and bad visibility, forcing FP1&2 to be suspended. The other requirement is that the hospital (from what I understand, a different, closer one) should be reached within 20 minutes. This also failed, due to traffic congestion. I was wondering how difficult it would be, logistically, to ensure that this route to the nearest hospital that meets the FIA's requirement can be reached within the 20 minutes. Certainly, with a bit of pre-planning this should be doable, even for Shanghai, considering other cities, like Singapore, pretty much close down the entire center during the entire F1 weekend. Now I'm aware that Singapore isn't Shanghai (then again, the race track isn't right smack in the center either?) in size and scope, but it certainly is quite extraordinary that an event of this magnitude might fail due to the simple reason that the medical helicopter can't land and the other hospital can't be reached in time due to a traffic lane not being shut down or traffic being diverted...

[Big Mangalhit]

Plus the race is on Sunday it is much easier to close roads or partially close them on sundays than fridays. So it could be a viable operation. The alternative hospital is only 8km away.

[Wass85]

With the money that's involved in F1 they could easily have a medical centre at the circuit for each race that would piss all over any hospital, it's ridiculous.

[kalinka]

It would be a huge waste of money to operate that kind of high-tech hospital only during race weekends. Even if other series race there during the year. Even rich countries can't afford a CT or MRI machine to be waiting unused between venues. Also consider that with race-kind of injuries you need the most expensive equipment and the most experienced people. I'm sure even the
best hospitals have to prepare with special plans for the race weekend just in case.