Fernando Alonso announces his retirement.

[wesley123]

Hindsight is great, isn´t it?

Ferrari at WCC:

2012: 2nd
2013: 3rd
2014(new rules): 4rd

The only clear thing was Ferrari was going downhill

What did that have to do with the token system giving room for big improvements?

Actually, the token system did limit room for improvements, and Ferrari was the 4rd team in 2014 so they had a lot to improve.

As proved later, in 2015, 2016 and 2017 they were far from title contenders, Mercedes was in their own league

Well considering how people think Alonso is the best driver ever, he surely would have had a better shot at it last year, wouldn't he?

Then he left, and as you say Ferrari is not used to any driver moving out voluntarily, so they didn´t get it kindly. But both parts said it at the day, it was Alonso decision to stay or leave, he had a new Ferrari contract prepared if he would decide to stay

Considering Raikkonen is driving for them I doubt that explanation.

That´s not an explanation, that´s what Ferrari said at the day. Check news if you can´t remind

I'm having difficulty finding it, mind if you provide a link?

Outside of that, it is still contradicting, as Raikkonen, who left Ferrari to join the WRC, is currently driving for them.

Despite your stubborn position about "Alonso has burnt bridges with any top team with his attitude", reality is:

- He didn´t with McLaren wich is undeniable as he´s a McLaren driver today

Because who ever cares that you have blackmailed your own team, right?

The sole stubborn thing here is holding the belief that that somehow isn't damaging to a relationship.

If you bother to read my replies and the discussion, I said I´ve never defended Alonso´s blackmailing. That was related to Phil´s statements about Alonso burning bridges. If he´s a McLaren driver today, he hardly burnt anything I´d say

Maybe opinions differ, but I'd say justifying is a form of defending;

It´s amazing how some people keep ingoring facts, so they can keep repeating spygate was the cause of the problems instead of the consequence.

I even posted a video where even the british TV show it was Lewis who disobeyed TOs and went against the team first, but some people is unable to remove their red tinted glasses...

[roon]

The saga continues ...

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... ull-offers

Really, it doesn't matter what happened. Each side will tell their own story, no one will know the truth, and it will become part of F1 lore. I do wonder though why he turned down the '11 offer. That would have been the safest, securest offer considering it was well apparent how good they were by that time in that formula. '13 would have been a guess moving into the turbocharger era. Suppose he didn't want to share the garage with Vettel, nor be the cause of booting Webber out.

McLaren probably offered him more money than RB, and his logic of more money at the back of the grid vs less money for a solid 3rd place in the CC, is decent. (If that is what occurred.) If you're not gonna contend for 1st, then, of your available options, choose the one that's most challenging and accommodating i.e. be a big fish in a small pond, and improve your talents by making slow cars go fast via adaptation. Maybe his Minardi days taught him that.

The amount of press around his exiting of F1, as he criticizes the faults and limitations of that sport, and pokes the eye of Horner, leaves me to wonder how much Indycar was involved. They stand to benefit from a brain drain of their primary open wheel competitor series.

[Andres125sx]

Well considering how people think Alonso is the best driver ever, he surely would have had a better shot at it last year, wouldn't he?

I think so, but as stated, hindsight is great. 2nd in 2012, 3rd in 2013 and 4rd with new rules in 2014 didn´t look promising for Ferrari at that point.

I'm having difficulty finding it, mind if you provide a link?

Outside of that, it is still contradicting, as Raikkonen, who left Ferrari to join the WRC, is currently driving for them.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alon ... 53/?nrt=54

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/motor ... a-new-deal

How is that about Kimi related to Alonso btw?

Maybe opinions differ, but I'd say justifying is a form of defending;

I call it put it into some perspective. To me it´s different hitting someone to hitting someone who hit you first

[Andres125sx]

The saga continues ...

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... ull-offers

Really, it doesn't matter what happened. Each side will tell their own story, no one will know the truth, and it will become part of F1 lore. I do wonder though why he turned down the '11 offer. That would have been the safest, securest offer considering it was well apparent how good they were by that time in that formula. '13 would have been a guess moving into the turbocharger era. Suppose he didn't want to share the garage with Vettel, nor be the cause of booting Webber out.

McLaren probably offered him more money than RB, and his logic of more money at the back of the grid vs less money for a solid 3rd place in the CC, is decent. (If that is what occurred.) If you're not gonna contend for 1st, then, of your available options, choose the one that's most challenging and accommodating i.e. be a big fish in a small pond, and improve your talents by making slow cars go fast via adaptation. Maybe his Minardi days taught him that.

The amount of press around his exiting of F1, as he criticizes the faults and limitations of that sport, and pokes the eye of Horner, leaves me to wonder how much Indycar was involved. They stand to benefit from a brain drain of their primary open wheel competitor series.

About 2011, at that point he almost beat RBR and win the title with Ferrari, he was the favourite for the title at last GP of 2010 and only a pretty bad move from Ferrari strategists ruined it. I don´t see it weird if he was aiming a title in red better than a title with an energy drink company

About 2015, I guess McLaren-Honda did look promising as a project, it´s only now when we see it as a more money at the back or less for 3rd, but in 2014 it was a project to fight for titles in 3 seasons time. Then Honda underperformed so badly now it looks like a joke, but not at the time


And about 2019, I´m sure he thinks aiming for the triple crown is a better target for 2019 than fighting for points in F1

[Jolle]

Now Alonso disclosed to SkySport that he had an offer from Renault for 2019.....

[Fulcrum]

Now Alonso disclosed to SkySport that he had an offer from Renault for 2019.....

Next it will be Ferrari.

Oh dear, I see from the negative rating someone doesn't have a sense of humour.

[strad]

[Ringleheim]

Freddy reminds me of Jean Alesi.

Alesi had a single F1 win, if you can believe that. Probably should have been a multiple world champion.

Freddy has his 2 championships, but should have had at least 5.

Both drives constantly in the wrong place at the wrong time, and their own career choices were their worst enemies.

[diffuser]

Freddy reminds me of Jean Alesi.

Alesi had a single F1 win, if you can believe that. Probably should have been a multiple world champion.

Freddy has his 2 championships, but should have had at least 5.

Both drives constantly in the wrong place at the wrong time, and their own career choices were their worst enemies.

As fans we must remember, that the number of drivers championships is not a measure of the talent of a driver. Aside from driving side by side in the same car, What is? I don't know. It's one of the reasons why these conversations go on and on. They're more about how the driver made them feel than it is on fact. Don't feel sorry about Alonso, he doesn't. He's won 2 world championships and has earned more in 2 races in 2018 that most of us will in a life time. He'll be missed.

[PlatinumZealot]

Great driver.. But he tried to be too clever for his own good. A truly clever man knows when to just shut up and drive. He would be with Ferrari right now with at LEAST two championships under his belt.

Anyway... He missed out on 2008 @ mclaren. Should have shut up and just dealt with Lewis in second year.

2009 to 2013 @ redbull.. He got offered and he refused like silly man.

2017,2018 Ferarri. After failing for three years in hybrid era with redbull he could have moved to Ferrari..

That is eight championships plus the two that he has already if he made the right moves. Undoubtedly he would be seen as the GOAT.

[Andres125sx]

Hindsight is great, isn´t it PZ?

Only with the benefit of hindsight anyone would dare to call silly anyone who didn´t accept a RBR offer in 2008-9 when they were just a new team with no manufacturer behind

[Just_a_fan]

Some people thought Michael was silly going to a Ferrari that hadn't won a title for 20+ years. People thought Lewis was silly leaving a successful McLaren to go to Mercedes - a team who had not looked likely to win a title up to that point. No one would have blamed either for not moving.

[alexx_88]

On the other hand, as with startups, people only remember the successful ones. Most times silly moves are just that, silly.

[Jolle]

It's a bit less of a gamble when you look at those moves from Hamilton and Schumacher in detail. They didn't just took a dive into the deep end. With Hamilton and McLaren, McLaren lost it's ownership of Daimler and Mercedes itself (where he had a contract with since he was 13) was really building an impressive team. All people who won multiple championships. Same goes for Schumacher, where basically the winning factor of the Benneton team moved with him to Ferrari. With RedBull, after Newey got his team up and running, it was pretty clear that it would become a championship winning team.
On the other side of the spectrum you have team like Toyota and BMW. They did have the financial support but didn't invest in the people who really make a team a winning team.

When Alonso went to Ferrari whey came off a few years of being successful but lost out in the last rules changes at that time where the Newey and Brawn teams beat them. As a solution they gave Kimi the most expensive sabbatical ever and got Alonso, without the big plan like Mercedes and RedBull.

To me Alonso is a bit of a loner, he doesn't build his team or has someone around him where he's part of their team. He also comes across that a good big pay check is a very good incentive to choose a certain path.

[WaikeCU]

Some people thought Michael was silly going to a Ferrari that hadn't won a title for 20+ years. People thought Lewis was silly leaving a successful McLaren to go to Mercedes - a team who had not looked likely to win a title up to that point. No one would have blamed either for not moving.

Villeneuve went to a newborn team BAR and leaving Williams. They did qualify 6th in some GP's, which wasn't bad for a newborn team.