2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

[maxxer]

The entire protest is about some calculations or estimates with regards to the impact on the dunes being supposedly wrong, did i understand that correctly?

No its not about the dunes its about The Netherlands being far above their emissions level
The government once pointed out areas all over the country to be part of the European Natura 2000 plan.
And now it seems the emmissions from mostly nitrous oxygen i think are far above the levels allowed.
So it means they have to close all the mega stalls near these areas all over the country to get back to the levels.
It caused a full construction stop near all these areas and Zandvoort is actually one of those areas.
Next to that comes the whole dune question that to protect those more.
That is more coming from people living there and sick of the track having so many track days and such.
Corporate events and such going on during the week driving your coworkers around in cars as teambuilding

[Jolle]

I like that there is a F1 race at the track I drive many laps on, but… from the start that Prince Bernard took over, they have been stretching/breaking rules and regulations over and over again (a trade well know by the prince) and to top it off, a slap in the face of the event Industry. In the Netherlands it’s still forbidden to have a multi day event, especially with a campsite. The whole music/entertainment industry is under great pressure for over a year. Then, the prince asked Dutch bands, who just got all their gigs cancelled again, to perfom for free. On a type of event they aren’t allowed to organise.

[maxxer]

I like that there is a F1 race at the track I drive many laps on, but… from the start that Prince Bernard took over, they have been stretching/breaking rules and regulations over and over again (a trade well know by the prince) and to top it off, a slap in the face of the event Industry. In the Netherlands it’s still forbidden to have a multi day event, especially with a campsite. The whole music/entertainment industry is under great pressure for over a year. Then, the prince asked Dutch bands, who just got all their gigs cancelled again, to perfom for free. On a type of event they aren’t allowed to organise.

Yes thats the new drama , if you just look at what artists Singapore GP is flying in and i am sure they would never ever play for free , Duran Duran, Ariane Grande tell those people well its gonna be for nothing to play lol

[RZS10]

The entire protest is about some calculations or estimates with regards to the impact on the dunes being supposedly wrong, did i understand that correctly?

No its not about the dunes its about The Netherlands being far above their emissions level
The government once pointed out areas all over the country to be part of the European Natura 2000 plan.
And now it seems the emmissions from mostly nitrous oxygen i think are far above the levels allowed.
So it means they have to close all the mega stalls near these areas all over the country to get back to the levels.
It caused a full construction stop near all these areas and Zandvoort is actually one of those areas.
Next to that comes the whole dune question that to protect those more.
That is more coming from people living there and sick of the track having so many track days and such.
Corporate events and such going on during the week driving your coworkers around in cars as teambuilding

Ah thx, so a general issue with NOx levels - i guess that doubting the initial expertise might just be one avenue they chose in trying to get racing banned at that track.

[maxxer]

The entire protest is about some calculations or estimates with regards to the impact on the dunes being supposedly wrong, did i understand that correctly?

No its not about the dunes its about The Netherlands being far above their emissions level
The government once pointed out areas all over the country to be part of the European Natura 2000 plan.
And now it seems the emmissions from mostly nitrous oxygen i think are far above the levels allowed.
So it means they have to close all the mega stalls near these areas all over the country to get back to the levels.
It caused a full construction stop near all these areas and Zandvoort is actually one of those areas.
Next to that comes the whole dune question that to protect those more.
That is more coming from people living there and sick of the track having so many track days and such.
Corporate events and such going on during the week driving your coworkers around in cars as teambuilding

Ah thx, so a general issue with NOx levels - i guess that doubting the initial expertise might just be one avenue they chose in trying to get racing banned at that track.

Yes it is one that just get the most publicity with international, better then with some mega pig farm closing near one of those areas

[Jolle]

I like that there is a F1 race at the track I drive many laps on, but… from the start that Prince Bernard took over, they have been stretching/breaking rules and regulations over and over again (a trade well know by the prince) and to top it off, a slap in the face of the event Industry. In the Netherlands it’s still forbidden to have a multi day event, especially with a campsite. The whole music/entertainment industry is under great pressure for over a year. Then, the prince asked Dutch bands, who just got all their gigs cancelled again, to perfom for free. On a type of event they aren’t allowed to organise.

Yes thats the new drama , if you just look at what artists Singapore GP is flying in and i am sure they would never ever play for free , Duran Duran, Ariane Grande tell those people well its gonna be for nothing to play lol

It’s also about timing. Feels like being asked to play at your ex wedding, for free.

[maxxer]

I like that there is a F1 race at the track I drive many laps on, but… from the start that Prince Bernard took over, they have been stretching/breaking rules and regulations over and over again (a trade well know by the prince) and to top it off, a slap in the face of the event Industry. In the Netherlands it’s still forbidden to have a multi day event, especially with a campsite. The whole music/entertainment industry is under great pressure for over a year. Then, the prince asked Dutch bands, who just got all their gigs cancelled again, to perfom for free. On a type of event they aren’t allowed to organise.

Yes thats the new drama , if you just look at what artists Singapore GP is flying in and i am sure they would never ever play for free , Duran Duran, Ariane Grande tell those people well its gonna be for nothing to play lol

It’s also about timing. Feels like being asked to play at your ex wedding, for free.

Ohhhh that is harsh
But true yes shocking that he dared to asked them to play for free

[El Scorchio]

How long is the start/finish straight?
Long enough to have a decent opportunity at an overtake in an F1 car without a ridiculous speed delta? I can’t see many other genuine opportunities aside from maaaaaaaybe between 10/11?

[Jolle]

How long is the start/finish straight?
Long enough to have a decent opportunity at an overtake in an F1 car without a ridiculous speed delta? I can’t see many other genuine opportunities aside from maaaaaaaybe between 10/11?

Short, about 700 meters. The banked corner (Luyendijk) lengthen it with about 300 meters but you need a good gap for the second to last corner (Kumho).
The best overtake is probably before the Audi S, the hairpin, especially because it has a slower entry then you need for the first apex, so a bit if overspeed, a dive and trying to block the car for the second turn is a possibility. But, if you overshoot, gravel trap and a nasty 90 degree barrier

[langedweil]

How long is the start/finish straight?
Long enough to have a decent opportunity at an overtake in an F1 car without a ridiculous speed delta? I can’t see many other genuine opportunities aside from maaaaaaaybe between 10/11?

Short, about 700 meters. The banked corner (Luyendijk) lengthen it with about 300 meters but you need a good gap for the second to last corner (Kumho).
The best overtake is probably before the Audi S, the hairpin, especially because it has a slower entry then you need for the first apex, so a bit if overspeed, a dive and trying to block the car for the second turn is a possibility. But, if you overshoot, gravel trap and a nasty 90 degree barrier

Indeed .. apparently 678m straight, 340m banked (kom-bocht) just before that.

[godlameroso]

Not sure if this has been posted already here or somewhere else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KmFRx4r_-M

Great view of how hard the safety car has to be driven - even though the drivers complain it's too slow.

Shows that this track is likely to be another Monaco - a procession.

That's some smooth driving, and despite everything that AMG V8 is a ripper.

[ringo]

Turn 11 looks like an overtaking spot.

[Ryar]

Turn 1 seems like turn 4 in Austria. So there is going to be similar penalties if a defending driver tries to push the chasing driver off track at the wide exit apex, if the car is "significantly" alongside.

[DChemTech]

Do tell more... I love a good scandal.

Currently, the owner of the circuit is prince Bernhard Junior, a cousin of the king. And with all the preparations required for the GP, <b>there seem to have been some environmental issues that were, say, glazed over.</b> Even in 2021, royalty opens doors that otherwise remain shut. Aside from his involvement in Zandvoort, Bernhard Jr. is most famous for owning a large stock of real estate in cities like Amsterdam, where it's sheer impossible for starters to find a house.

You picture the royal family quite negatively while other point of views are possible. I for one see also the benefits of a monarchy.

I am pretty sure that the 'environmental issues' were not glazed over. The NOx for instance was at many places (for building projects and industry as well) an issue because of lack of permits. Zandvoort does have a nature protection permit already for a long time. Debate is now mainly because environmental groups just try something, and legislation for NOx is on the move. Zandvoort is quite unique in this regard that they have of a sound environmental permit in which a formula 1 race is permittef every year since the last race in 1985, just in case.

There's a lot more to it than just the NOx courtcase (where I'm happy it didn't end up cancelling the race, by the way). Many things regarding contracts and permits for this GP have been a bit shady. There was the initial 'battle' between Zandvoort and Assen where Assen never really stood a chance. There was the 'incident' with the circuit having permission to set up temporary stands in the dunes, and somehow interpreting that as being allowed to dump asphalt grains in the midst of the habitat of some rare reptiles and frogs. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that the Netherlands has a grand prix, I'm just not exactly thrilled with the way many things around it came about.
(I won't address the first point because that's a recipe for post deletion, and fair enough I guess. It's an interesting discussion, but to be had elsewhere)

[Just_a_fan]

Turn 1 seems like turn 4 in Austria. So there is going to be similar penalties if a defending driver tries to push the chasing driver off track at the wide exit apex, if the car is "significantly" alongside.

Followed by 50 pages in this thread as people argue about what "significantly" means, whether it was fair and how it was the same as/different from something 10 years ago...