2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[homercircle]

I assume you mean for the first time? cos I'm pretty sure all teams will run in Bahrain

If true, that is REALLY worrying

Its already only 2 weeks to the first race, leaving it 1 week to the first race, before the car's even turned a wheel, is Unacceptable in my book

Maybe they don't want to run the chassis on a cold track. The launch in Bahrain will be as close to real conditions as possible.

No shakedown before pre-season is unusual. It suggest the car is not ready, production delays and late design changes.

Is this fallout from the Seidl departure over the winter? Ferrari didn't have any problems.

My first thought was they know what they have and rather spend the money someplace else. This car looks very much like an evolution of last year with minor changes, no need to spend money on something you already know.

[AR3-GP]

Maybe they don't want to run the chassis on a cold track. The launch in Bahrain will be as close to real conditions as possible.

No shakedown before pre-season is unusual. It suggest the car is not ready, production delays and late design changes.

Is this fallout from the Seidl departure over the winter? Ferrari didn't have any problems.

My first thought was they know what they have and rather spend the money someplace else. This car looks very much like an evolution of last year with minor changes, no need to spend money on something you already know.

That's a generous interpretation...

Shakedowns are standard operating procedure. If Mclaren aren't doing one, it's because the car isn't ready.

[homercircle]

No shakedown before pre-season is unusual. It suggest the car is not ready, production delays and late design changes.

Is this fallout from the Seidl departure over the winter? Ferrari didn't have any problems.

My first thought was they know what they have and rather spend the money someplace else. This car looks very much like an evolution of last year with minor changes, no need to spend money on something you already know.

That's a generous interpretation...

Shakedowns are standard operating procedure. If Mclaren aren't doing one, it's because the car isn't ready.

I wasn't being generous. It looks like they changed the sidepod shape a little. Like I said, no need to waste money on a shakedown of last years car.

If they made numerous changes a shakedown would be needed. I don't think they changed much, hope I'm wrong.

[SmallSoldier]

No shakedown before pre-season is unusual. It suggest the car is not ready, production delays and late design changes.

Is this fallout from the Seidl departure over the winter? Ferrari didn't have any problems.

My first thought was they know what they have and rather spend the money someplace else. This car looks very much like an evolution of last year with minor changes, no need to spend money on something you already know.

That's a generous interpretation...

Shakedowns are standard operating procedure. If Mclaren aren't doing one, it's because the car isn't ready.

That’s a very pessimistic interpretation… There is no indication whatsoever that the car isn’t ready.

Last season they were the second team to show their car and instead of doing a shakedown / filming day at Silverstone, they decided to do theirs in Barcelona very close to the start of testing.

Weather at Silverstone sometimes plays against the teams, especially this time of the year with potential rain, it is also on the cold side for anything representative… If you want to use the filming day for it’s primary purpose (a shakedown is on paper a secondary purpose), you want to do it in a setting that maximizes how the car looks (a sunny setting for example).

They may also have a few bits and pieces that they don’t want yet out there and let’s face it, even though these sessions are private, that’s where a few leaks end up happening.

Are all the test / race parts ready? Probably not since they usually try to extend development time until the last possible minute (it isn’t unusual for teams to bring parts while in testing, at the end of the day that’s what it is for)… Running for the sake of running, with little to no value add it’s pointless… As stated by homercircle, they might be confident in their processes and don’t feel the need to run it early.

[AR3-GP]

My first thought was they know what they have and rather spend the money someplace else. This car looks very much like an evolution of last year with minor changes, no need to spend money on something you already know.

That's a generous interpretation...

Shakedowns are standard operating procedure. If Mclaren aren't doing one, it's because the car isn't ready.

That’s a very pessimistic interpretation… There is no indication whatsoever that the car isn’t ready.

Last season they were the second team to show their car and instead of doing a shakedown / filming day at Silverstone, they decided to do theirs in Barcelona very close to the start of testing.

Mclaren's '22 pre-season was troubled. They only learned about the fundamental brake issue in Bahrain and it was disastrous.

With only 3 days of pre-season this year, a shakedown/100km filming session is even more important for mileage well before the season starts.

If they go to Bahrain as is, they will be a long way from home and will only have 7 days between the test and the first GP to resolve any issues. A shakedown now, would give them time to prepare fixes for Bahrain pre-season. Now they'll only discover the flaws in the pre-season and have a 7 day window before the first GP.

When 9 out of 10 teams do a shakedown, you know something is wrong at Mclaren...

[SmallSoldier]

That's a generous interpretation...

Shakedowns are standard operating procedure. If Mclaren aren't doing one, it's because the car isn't ready.

That’s a very pessimistic interpretation… There is no indication whatsoever that the car isn’t ready.

Last season they were the second team to show their car and instead of doing a shakedown / filming day at Silverstone, they decided to do theirs in Barcelona very close to the start of testing.

Mclaren's '22 pre-season was troubled. They only learned about the fundamental brake issue in Bahrain.

With only 3 days of pre-season, a shakedown/100km filming session is even more important for mileage well before the season starts.

If they go to Bahrain as is, they will be a long way from home and will only have 7 days between the test and the first GP.

Proving the point that it doesn’t add value… McLaren run their car with a Shakedown in Barcelona, 3 days of testing (100km Shakedown + 1715Km during Barcelona testing for a total of 1815km) and it wasn’t until the car was run in Bahrain (with representative temperatures) that the brake issues became evident.

For all intents and purposes, the Shakedown and the Barcelona test didn’t showcase the issues with the brakes or any other issues, Danie’s exact quote after testing in Barcelona was finished was: “Overall, a pretty flawless three days for the team, a really awesome start to the season.”

So no, a Shakedown won’t necessarily alert you of any potential issues with the car (as proven in 2022 by McLaren) and doing it close to testing isn’t a sign of issues with the car or it not been ready.

[AR3-GP]

That’s a very pessimistic interpretation… There is no indication whatsoever that the car isn’t ready.

Last season they were the second team to show their car and instead of doing a shakedown / filming day at Silverstone, they decided to do theirs in Barcelona very close to the start of testing.

Mclaren's '22 pre-season was troubled. They only learned about the fundamental brake issue in Bahrain.

With only 3 days of pre-season, a shakedown/100km filming session is even more important for mileage well before the season starts.

If they go to Bahrain as is, they will be a long way from home and will only have 7 days between the test and the first GP.

Proving the point that it doesn’t add value… McLaren run their car with a Shakedown in Barcelona, 3 days of testing (100km Shakedown + 1715Km during Barcelona testing for a total of 1815km) and it wasn’t until the car was run in Bahrain (with representative temperatures) that the brake issues became evident.

For all intents and purposes, the Shakedown and the Barcelona test didn’t showcase the issues with the brakes or any other issues, Danie’s exact quote after testing in Barcelona was finished was: “Overall, a pretty flawless three days for the team, a really awesome start to the season.”

So no, a Shakedown won’t necessarily alert you of any potential issues with the car (as proven in 2022 by McLaren) and doing it close to testing isn’t a sign of issues with the car or it not been ready.

I can't imagine that 9 out of 10 teams all got it wrong and Mclaren are playing the blinder by not doing the shake down. If they uncover a big issue in Bahrain which might have been uncovered in a shakedown last week or this week, it will not be a great time for them.

And that's why you do the shakedown early.

[SmallSoldier]

Mclaren's '22 pre-season was troubled. They only learned about the fundamental brake issue in Bahrain.

With only 3 days of pre-season, a shakedown/100km filming session is even more important for mileage well before the season starts.

If they go to Bahrain as is, they will be a long way from home and will only have 7 days between the test and the first GP.

Proving the point that it doesn’t add value… McLaren run their car with a Shakedown in Barcelona, 3 days of testing (100km Shakedown + 1715Km during Barcelona testing for a total of 1815km) and it wasn’t until the car was run in Bahrain (with representative temperatures) that the brake issues became evident.

For all intents and purposes, the Shakedown and the Barcelona test didn’t showcase the issues with the brakes or any other issues, Danie’s exact quote after testing in Barcelona was finished was: “Overall, a pretty flawless three days for the team, a really awesome start to the season.”

So no, a Shakedown won’t necessarily alert you of any potential issues with the car (as proven in 2022 by McLaren) and doing it close to testing isn’t a sign of issues with the car or it not been ready.

I can't imagine that 9 out of 10 teams all got it wrong and Mclaren are playing the blinder by not doing the shake down. If they uncover a big issue in Bahrain which might have been uncovered in a shakedown last week or this week, it will not be a great time for them.

And that's why you do the shakedown early.

If you want to dismiss all the available data, not much can be done… You want to a put a negative spin on McLaren not doing a Shakedown at Silverstone and create a narrative that it is because they are having issues or something, you are free to do so… But the data shows that a Shakedown isn’t a must, it won’t show issues like the one McLaren experienced last season and is not a reflection of the team having any issues… On the other hand, an argument on why they might be delaying their filming day has been put forward, if you choose to dismiss it, you are also free to do so.

[_cerber1]

No shakedown before pre-season is unusual. It suggest the car is not ready, production delays and late design changes.

Is this fallout from the Seidl departure over the winter? Ferrari didn't have any problems.

It just goes to show that they don't want to spend launch day on cold pavement anywhere in Europe, they have 7 more days to run the chassis in Bahrain before testing starts.

[AR3-GP]

Proving the point that it doesn’t add value… McLaren run their car with a Shakedown in Barcelona, 3 days of testing (100km Shakedown + 1715Km during Barcelona testing for a total of 1815km) and it wasn’t until the car was run in Bahrain (with representative temperatures) that the brake issues became evident.

For all intents and purposes, the Shakedown and the Barcelona test didn’t showcase the issues with the brakes or any other issues, Danie’s exact quote after testing in Barcelona was finished was: “Overall, a pretty flawless three days for the team, a really awesome start to the season.”

So no, a Shakedown won’t necessarily alert you of any potential issues with the car (as proven in 2022 by McLaren) and doing it close to testing isn’t a sign of issues with the car or it not been ready.

I can't imagine that 9 out of 10 teams all got it wrong and Mclaren are playing the blinder by not doing the shake down. If they uncover a big issue in Bahrain which might have been uncovered in a shakedown last week or this week, it will not be a great time for them.

And that's why you do the shakedown early.

If you want to dismiss all the available data, not much can be done…

The available data is that 9 out of 10 teams have done them already, many at Silverstone. Including the 3 current leading teams, weather be damned. Yet somehow everything is fine at Mclaren? That's not the logical conclusion.

Is there something Mclaren knows, that the teams that fielded the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best cars last year don't?

In my opinion, there's no logical reason for Mclaren to not have completed their shakedown at Silverstone already, other than the car not being ready.

Shakedowns are not about weather. They're about making sure you don't lose a whole test because you never ran the car before the test.

[SmallSoldier]

I can't imagine that 9 out of 10 teams all got it wrong and Mclaren are playing the blinder by not doing the shake down. If they uncover a big issue in Bahrain which might have been uncovered in a shakedown last week or this week, it will not be a great time for them.

And that's why you do the shakedown early.

If you want to dismiss all the available data, not much can be done…

The available data is that 9 out of 10 teams have done them already, many at Silverstone. Including the 3 current leading teams, weather be damned. Yet somehow everything is fine at Mclaren? That's not the logical conclusion.

Is there something Mclaren knows, that the teams that fielded the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best cars last year don't?

Maybe this is something for Mclaren to learn.

So now is about the other teams? You mentioned that McLaren struggled with the beginning of the season last year… I proved to you that even when they had a Shakedown and 3 days of testing and 1815km of running, they didn’t detected the problem.

You are creating a narrative of a problem that isn’t there as the reason for a late Shakedown (the car isn’t ready, they are in trouble)… Last season they also had a late shakedown and you are trying to correlate it to their struggles at the beginning of the season, the data shows that there was no correlation between the two.

[AR3-GP]

If you want to dismiss all the available data, not much can be done…

The available data is that 9 out of 10 teams have done them already, many at Silverstone. Including the 3 current leading teams, weather be damned. Yet somehow everything is fine at Mclaren? That's not the logical conclusion.

Is there something Mclaren knows, that the teams that fielded the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best cars last year don't?

Maybe this is something for Mclaren to learn.

So now is about the other teams? You mentioned that McLaren struggled with the beginning of the season last year… I proved to you that even when they had a Shakedown and 3 days of testing and 1815km of running, they didn’t detected the problem.

This isn't really logical reasoning. Just because you didn't find a problem in a shakedown doesn't mean you should never do a shakedown again. What kind of reasoning is that?

You do them every year, as early as you can, unless you can't, because the car isn't ready.

[SmallSoldier]

The available data is that 9 out of 10 teams have done them already, many at Silverstone. Including the 3 current leading teams, weather be damned. Yet somehow everything is fine at Mclaren? That's not the logical conclusion.

Is there something Mclaren knows, that the teams that fielded the 1st, 2nd and 3rd best cars last year don't?

Maybe this is something for Mclaren to learn.

So now is about the other teams? You mentioned that McLaren struggled with the beginning of the season last year… I proved to you that even when they had a Shakedown and 3 days of testing and 1815km of running, they didn’t detected the problem.

This isn't really logical reasoning. Just because you didn't find a problem in a shakedown doesn't mean you should never do a shakedown again. What kind of reasoning is that?

You do them every year, as early as you can, unless you can't, because the car isn't ready.

Again… There was no early shakedown last season, the car run “flawlessly” in testing in Barcelona… No one is saying they won’t do one… Does it has to be at Silverstone? Do they find more value doing it in an environment where they can actually find something? They have the data, you don’t… I have a tendency to think that they know more than you and me.

[swifteddie1]

I hope I am wrong, but its all a little troubling.

The general mood in the team at the launch was that they aren't where they want to be and hope an upgrade in Baku will address their issues. Baku is in 2.5 months.

James Key as far as I can tell was no where at the launch.

8 of 10 teams have run a shakedown with McLaren and Haas the only ones not to. Yes, a shakedown will not uncover every issue with the car, but it will certainly help you work out any little niggles with the new car.

Something doesn't seem right, but i really hope i am wrong.

Either way I will be cheering for the team this year and hoping for the best.

[SmallSoldier]

I hope I am wrong, but its all a little troubling.

The general mood in the team at the launch was that they aren't where they want to be and hope an upgrade in Baku will address their issues. Baku is in 2.5 months.

James Key as far as I can tell was no where at the launch.

8 of 10 teams have run a shakedown with McLaren and Haas the only ones not to. Yes, a shakedown will not uncover every issue with the car, but it will certainly help you work out any little niggles with the new car.

Something doesn't seem right, but i really hope i am wrong.

Either way I will be cheering for the team this year and hoping for the best.

In regards to the upgrade at Baku, this season plays into a plan like that really well… We usually have 5-6 races in the span of 2.5 months… This year, because they won’t be racing in China, they only have 3 races where they won’t be running the spec they want, not a bad outcome really.