Christian Horner under Investigation

[chrisc90]

I’m not even going to believe any of this until RBR confirm in a statement.

Seems to be too many angles, stories and jorno’s wanting to make a few quid fabricating stuff

[Shakeman]

Can Red Bull Group afford to shoot the F1 team in the foot like this?

Have they even considered the consequences of Horner's character assassination, having made such a massive investment in the team the last 20 years only to bring it down with such a petty power struggle?

Seems like it's true what they say, more often than not the first generation of a successful family makes everyone rich, the second one squanders it all away and the third ends up with massive debt...

Mateschitz invested in the Team, it was his pet project, because he was an F1 fan. RB is essentially a marketing company for sugar and caffeine and there are vastly cheaper and easier ways of selling those ingredients than F1. I bet the marketing spend on social media such as the tens of thousands of dollars sponsoring lads that throw themselves off buildings for millions of TikTok views has a much greater return than the hundred of millions of dollars they sink into F1 for a niche audience which is heavily paywalled around the world.

I said as much in a thread years ago that should Mateschitz step down RB F1 team may be cut loose and sold, the Porsche deal was obviously a step in that direction which Horner kyboshed after all. I've seen what happens in corporations, a den of vipers and factions tolerating each other until there's a chink in someone's armour then it's all guns blazing...

[Wouter]

Well, that's exactly what I mean! Moreover, they should have waited until after the discussions with Horner and the lawyers on Friday to release the information.

.
I'm not sure you understand that this is a targeted campaign from their side, on purpose. No one makes an example of a person they want to keep.

.
I certainly understand that this is a devised plan by RB GmbH to fire Horner, because they want to get rid of him.
That's why they already put it out before the meeting is held in MK on Friday.
Horner has already been condemned by the outside world and that was exactly what was intended in Salzburg
by telling the whole story to van Haren.
I'm glad that Mr Mateschitz doesn't see all this scheming because it was his project that he has started end was crazy and proud of.

[Shakeman]

I’m not even going to believe any of this until RBR confirm in a statement.

Seems to be too many angles, stories and jorno’s wanting to make a few quid fabricating stuff

Never believe anything until it's officially denied.

[Vanja #66]

Mateschitz invested in the Team, it was his pet project, because he was an F1 fan. RB is essentially a marketing company for sugar and caffeine and there are vastly cheaper and easier ways of selling those ingredients than F1. I bet the marketing spend on social media such as the tens of thousands of dollars sponsoring lads that throw themselves off buildings for millions of TikTok views has a much greater return than the hundred of millions of dollars they sink into F1 for a niche audience which is heavily paywalled around the world.

I said as much in a thread years ago that should Mateschitz step down RB F1 team may be cut loose and sold, the Porsche deal was obviously a step in that direction which Horner kyboshed after all. I've seen what happens in corporations, a den of vipers and factions tolerating each other until there's a chink in someone's armour then it's all guns blazing...

Agreed and second everything you said. However, being in F1 is more than just having a team, it's also a big and unique playground for all kinds of business networking and making impactful deals. Plus even Haas is a profitable team nowadays with Budget Cap and all, so overall RB would lose money if they exit. So I don't see them as preparing an exit, but I can see Andretti hoping for exactly that

[chrisc90]

Surely if they can’t decide what to do at the top, just sell the team.

[Vanja #66]

From what I've seen the public is mostly seeing through all this bs from RB PR team, so I could see them backing off and leaving Horner alone (for now) by Friday...

[maxxer]

Can Red Bull Group afford to shoot the F1 team in the foot like this?

Have they even considered the consequences of Horner's character assassination, having made such a massive investment in the team the last 20 years only to bring it down with such a petty power struggle?

Seems like it's true what they say, more often than not the first generation of a successful family makes everyone rich, the second one squanders it all away and the third ends up with massive debt...

Mateschitz invested in the Team, it was his pet project, because he was an F1 fan. RB is essentially a marketing company for sugar and caffeine and there are vastly cheaper and easier ways of selling those ingredients than F1. I bet the marketing spend on social media such as the tens of thousands of dollars sponsoring lads that throw themselves off buildings for millions of TikTok views has a much greater return than the hundred of millions of dollars they sink into F1 for a niche audience which is heavily paywalled around the world.

I said as much in a thread years ago that should Mateschitz step down RB F1 team may be cut loose and sold, the Porsche deal was obviously a step in that direction which Horner kyboshed after all. I've seen what happens in corporations, a den of vipers and factions tolerating each other until there's a chink in someone's armour then it's all guns blazing...

Very true and ofcourse MV attracted alot of Dutch to F1 , Already alot of people were losing interest quickly.
These temporary fans enjoyed ofcourse the year of dominance , but they quickly move on to other sports.
Already last year such fans began moaning that it was getting boring if the same guy wins every race by far.
In the end they revert to not watching but just reading the results.
RB Marketing is more about extremes ofcourse.

[ThijsMuis]

.....Ecclestone


https://nl.motorsport.com/f1/news/advoc ... /10573289/

The German sister publication goes further.
https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... g-24020706

On February 15, Red Bull Racing will be presenting his team for the 2024 Formula One season, but whether Christian Horner will be still team boss is still in the stars. Around the allegations against him seeks two days after their Anniversary on Monday gradually more details.

© Motorsport Network
The relationship between the hiding and Christian Horner is considered badly ramped
It is now certain that Horner will be approved by an "independent investigative lawyer" as announced by Red Bull GmbH on Monday. Assumption of other employees on the subject has according to information from Motorsport-Total.com has already taken place.

View

It will be the first time that Horner has testified himself in the course of the investigation process. The allegations against the 50-year-old are not expressed in this regard at Red Bull. In the Formula 1 community, various rumors circulate, many of them unsppetitly. What is clear is that the allegations were made by a Red Bull team employee who worked closely with Horner.


The fact that the future of Horner at Red Bull Racing will decide on Friday is according to information from Motorsport-Total.com not carved into stone. It is more likely that the investigative lawyer must first thoroughly process and evaluate the results of his investigations and conclusions and then come to a conclusion.

However, time is pushing. If Red Bull's presentation for the 2024 season on February 15, there should ideally be clarity on whether Horner's team boss can stay or not. Especially since Red Bull GmbH had announced in its statement that it would like to bring the investigation to a conclusion "as soon as possible."

Horner has been advised to resign voluntarily
It is now clear that behind the scenes there was an attempt to settle the affair without much loss of face for all involved. Apparently, Horner was advised to volunteer to avoid all-too-much media oversight and a public shitstorm against his person.

View

But that's what Horner is supposed to reject. He has now set up his own lawyers to defend his position. So far he had only against the Dutch De Telegraaf publicly expressed on the allegations. The newspaper from the home of Starpilot Max Hinging He just said, "I categorically deny these allegations."

Behind the scenes is former Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone to play a role. Horner is known to be Ecclestone's funeral witness, the personal relationship of the two unchanged well. Ecclestone, one hears from insider circles, should try to have a calming effect on Horner. But he still refuses to resign volunteer.

Verstappen family positions itself against Horner
The fact that the story is first leaked in the Netherlands is probably no coincidence. Behind the scenes of Formula One it is shredded that the personal relationship between Horner and Jos Verstappen is badly ramped. And Verstappen jun. is considered a loyal person whose loyalty is especially two men: his father and Helmut Marko

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[f1jcw]

Seems Horner has several knives in his back from all directions, need to be careful who he tries to unseat. Trying to remember my Movie quotes "Make sure I'm all the way dead, cause I will come back and make you my *****"

Seems he underestimated Marko.

[SiLo]

I did! I blame RB GmbH for everything they are doing towards Horner. This had to be discussed intern.

RB are covering themselves in case of leaks. It's far better for them to control the narrative and be transparent than not, especially if this is a case of sexual harassment. They will want to be seen by everyone as being proactive, swift and fair. Leaving the journey to speculate everything would only make things worse.

Covering themselves but throwing their team leader of 20 years under the bus before investigating the allegations and having something concrete to report. I present to you, the modern corporation.

I've re-read the quotes and it seems far more like some guy just being interviewed and really trying not to reveal too much, but failing to do so. I think there is more going on here than just this investigation, and it might be tied to those previous reports of power battles between Horner, Marko and the Austrian arm.

[langedweil]

This could either blow over on miscommunication by Friday, but could just as easily blow up like mad .. on a LH to Fer kinda level.

[mwillems]

Can Red Bull Group afford to shoot the F1 team in the foot like this?

Have they even considered the consequences of Horner's character assassination, having made such a massive investment in the team the last 20 years only to bring it down with such a petty power struggle?

Seems like it's true what they say, more often than not the first generation of a successful family makes everyone rich, the second one squanders it all away and the third ends up with massive debt...

Mateschitz invested in the Team, it was his pet project, because he was an F1 fan. RB is essentially a marketing company for sugar and caffeine and there are vastly cheaper and easier ways of selling those ingredients than F1. I bet the marketing spend on social media such as the tens of thousands of dollars sponsoring lads that throw themselves off buildings for millions of TikTok views has a much greater return than the hundred of millions of dollars they sink into F1 for a niche audience which is heavily paywalled around the world.

I said as much in a thread years ago that should Mateschitz step down RB F1 team may be cut loose and sold, the Porsche deal was obviously a step in that direction which Horner kyboshed after all. I've seen what happens in corporations, a den of vipers and factions tolerating each other until there's a chink in someone's armour then it's all guns blazing...

Very true and ofcourse MV attracted alot of Dutch to F1 , Already alot of people were losing interest quickly.
These temporary fans enjoyed ofcourse the year of dominance , but they quickly move on to other sports.
Already last year such fans began moaning that it was getting boring if the same guy wins every race by far.
In the end they revert to not watching but just reading the results.
RB Marketing is more about extremes ofcourse.

There was an analysis of the ROI for Daimler's investment in Mercedes, they looked at all the print and digital coverage the brand got from the Merc F1 team and suggested that per year, to get that coverage it would be in the billions. At that time they were spending around £40m of their own money per year as the team were so well sponsored, it is now down to $30m.

It won't be much different for RB. They have very big sponsorship revenue aside from Red Bull. Sponsorship revenue alone is around $240m with $100m coming from Oracle each year. The turnover is near $400m with the team making a small profit. The money they put in will be dwarfed by the brand exposure F1 gives them in all sorts of markets around the world.

There were direct correlations in car sales and success also.

[basti313]

I’m not even going to believe any of this until RBR confirm in a statement.

Seems to be too many angles, stories and jorno’s wanting to make a few quid fabricating stuff

I also do not see anything really substantial. There is a small leak about an investigation...and some journalists writing long stories including Ecclestone around it without anything more than "on Friday is an investigation" in their pocket...

Even if there is something behind, I do not see the big story...maybe they sack him on some dick pics, then Wheatley will take over and everything will run as before...just without Horner.

Seems Horner has several knives in his back from all directions, need to be careful who he tries to unseat. Trying to remember my Movie quotes "Make sure I'm all the way dead, cause I will come back and make you my *****"

Seems he underestimated Marko.

Why Marko? I know that people here do not like Marko, but where is the connection in reality? All this rivalry or potential fight between the two was never in any way confirmed or with any real prove.

[Shakeman]

Mateschitz invested in the Team, it was his pet project, because he was an F1 fan. RB is essentially a marketing company for sugar and caffeine and there are vastly cheaper and easier ways of selling those ingredients than F1. I bet the marketing spend on social media such as the tens of thousands of dollars sponsoring lads that throw themselves off buildings for millions of TikTok views has a much greater return than the hundred of millions of dollars they sink into F1 for a niche audience which is heavily paywalled around the world.

I said as much in a thread years ago that should Mateschitz step down RB F1 team may be cut loose and sold, the Porsche deal was obviously a step in that direction which Horner kyboshed after all. I've seen what happens in corporations, a den of vipers and factions tolerating each other until there's a chink in someone's armour then it's all guns blazing...

Very true and ofcourse MV attracted alot of Dutch to F1 , Already alot of people were losing interest quickly.
These temporary fans enjoyed ofcourse the year of dominance , but they quickly move on to other sports.
Already last year such fans began moaning that it was getting boring if the same guy wins every race by far.
In the end they revert to not watching but just reading the results.
RB Marketing is more about extremes ofcourse.

There was an analysis of the ROI for Daimler's investment in Mercedes, they looked at all the print and digital coverage the brand got from the Merc F1 team and suggested that per year, to get that coverage it would be in the billions. At that time they were spending around £40m of their own money per year as the team were so well sponsored, it is now down to $30m.

It won't be much different for RB. They have very big sponsorship revenue aside from Red Bull. Sponsorship revenue alone is around $240m with $100m coming from Oracle each year. The turnover is near $400m with the team making a small profit. The money they put in will be dwarfed by the brand exposure F1 gives them in all sorts of markets around the world.

There were direct correlations in car sales and success also.

People buying high-end Mercedes road cars like to tell themselves there is F1 DNA passed down into their sports car or road car. The sell is completely different for a can of water, sugar and caffeine. There's no F1 DNA on the ingredients list on the side of the can.

'RB gives you wings' works because everyone can afford a can of Red Bull, it's not an aspirational product like a Mercedes car, it's about little Johnny buying a can of red bull on the way to the skate park. I'd be very surprised if RB F1 spend results in more effective marketing than sponsoring base jumpers and free runners who rack up millions of views on social media.

To make a small profit as an F1 Team means the investment risk is high for little reward which certain factions within might see better use of the F1 budget going into less risky and higher reward ventures.

This is all supposition as no one on the outside knows what's really going on at Red Bull if there are any corporate in-fighting shenanigans at all behind the Horner allegations. I just can't see Horner being guilty of the more lurid allegations at all, I can see him being a challenge to work for but that isn't illegal.