Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

[RedMaple]

RedMaple

There should be a survey done to see the correlation between those who wish for Max's head and his handing McLaren a $100M fine. I think it would be quite high. I don't understand what Max was supposed to do. Let them off? If so would that not have really brought F1 to its knees? Who would have believed McLaren won fair and square?

In some sense I do agree RedMaple, I raised the $100M fine as there is a link between McLaren's behaviour and Mosley's, both have brought the sport into disrepute. Also however, a lot more people / organisations are calling for Mosley to go than supported McLaren, namely AAA, German Auto organisation, Israel Auto organisation, Dutch Auto organisation, Paul Stoddart, Jody Scheckter, to name a few.

I think there is a distinction here that should be clarified. McLaren brought F1 into disrepute. McLarens actions last year basically called the legitimacy of the F1 season into question. On the other hand Mosley's private life has cast questions of whether he should be head of the FIA. Is his private behavior acceptable or not? The publics perception in both of these cases calls for action. McLaren was punished in the best interest of F1. Mosley will eventually be thrown out of office because the head of FIA is supposed to be above that sort of behavior.

The correlation I mentioned was solely based on F1 fans and not on organizations and such. It was my impression that many who did not agree with Mosley handling of McLarens fine last year wanted Mosley gone.

I am not a fan of Mosley but I wish all those who came out for Mosley to quit would allow for innocent until proven guilty to apply, especially public organizations. If they have examined all the facts and come to that conclusion then fine, but it all seems that it is all a politically correct thing to do.

[P_O_L]

I think youl find even more correlation between mclaren fans/ lewis fan boys and fans that think mosley handed mclarens pathetic small fine was bad.

I am intrigued who the hell decided to put such a scam on mosley though. An ordinary papparazi couldv just called mosley after taping and demanded any sum of money to prevent this from leaking. way more than news of the world would be prepared to offer.

What i also find double standards, is that mosley needs to leave office, but outright trash crack junkies like amy winehouse get to win emmys and is now nominated to make the title song for the new james bond movie. What an example for kids. It puzzles me.

[modbaraban]

More news on the topic.

Click somewhere on this needlessly long sentence to visit the website and read.

[Belatti]

HEYY!! Amy sings ok, doesn´t matter if she is a junkie!
I´m an alice in chains fan for god sake

I don´t see the need of talking about the "legality or not" of what Max did. Like POL said, if the video doesn´t shows money interchange we can say nothing. Beyond that, illegal things don´t neccesary have to be bad. If prostitution is illegal there, well, I´m against that and defend Holland where there is a "zone" for that.

Prostitution is just a service, there are many lonely people who can´t get and have the right to do so, is a human need, fullfiled by people who deserves more respect than they often do.
The f*cking moralist who thinks whores are not common human beings, I invite them to go out with one but don´t have sex, just have a drink and talk to her and you´ll see you can even fall in love with her.

[Ray]

I´m an alice in chains fan for god sake

Belatti, I like you even more than I did before!

[gcdugas]

I´m an alice in chains fan for god sake

Max likes chains too.

[P_O_L]

I like alice in chains as well and they also have some drug related incidents iirc.

But my point is, it remains a bit vague where to draw the line on what is acceptable and what not.

Today Lewis gave fisichella the handshake, called him a wanker in body language. Will mercedes, toyota, honda and BMW now also issue statements that Lewis has to be withdrawn from the championship? Doesnt it make lewis previous statement that people in the picture should take responsibility sound like it comes from a 2-faced idiot? Will he take it over this action?

Again, i think mosleys position is too hot for him to stay on. But perhaps the others shouldnt be so hypocritical either.

[Ciro Pabón]

But my point is, it remains a bit vague where to draw the line on what is acceptable and what not.

I pick this last quote, but I could have picked many before this one, sorry P_O_L.

As a minimum, what's acceptable is what is legal, you know that.

The fact is that England is one of the few (if not the only) countries in the world where S&M consensual acts are illegal, even when no money is involved. Just google for "operation spanner" to see what I mean, I don't have such a bad memory as Max Mosley, barrister.

Those that think that the Crown wouldn't prosecute that, specially those who are into law as a profession, ehem, should really look into it: last time the Crown went all the way to the Court at La Haya.

I know you're entitled to your opinion but come on, the man paid a woman to allow him to beat her. What part of that are you ok with?

[ben_watkins]

I know you're entitled to your opinion but come on, the man paid a woman to allow him to beat her. What part of that are you ok with?

=D> =D> =D>

Well said..

Max's actions were immoral if not illegal. Why is there so much defence of the dirty old man? He's a married man visiting whores for 5 hours of humiliation and sex, paying a alleged £25,000 for the orgy!

[ben_watkins]

Now Lauda is calling for Max to quit..

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66470

"If Max starts to think about things without emotion, then there can be only one conclusion - he has to resign,"

[P_O_L]

But my point is, it remains a bit vague where to draw the line on what is acceptable and what not.

I pick this last quote, but I could have picked many before this one, sorry P_O_L.

As a minimum, what's acceptable is what is legal, you know that.

The fact is that England is one of the few (if not the only) countries in the world where S&M consensual acts are illegal, even when no money is involved. Just google for "operation spanner" to see what I mean, I don't have such a bad memory as Max Mosley, barrister.

Those that think that the Crown wouldn't prosecute that, specially those who are into law as a profession, ehem, should really look into it: last time the Crown went all the way to the Court at La Haya.

I know you're entitled to your opinion but come on, the man paid a woman to allow him to beat her. What part of that are you ok with?

As always, youre exagerating and dramatise the facts.

Im sorry for you but this is 2008 not 1950. Youd be amazed and probably shocked what people do for sex these days. If the law was the minimum then half of juvenile England would be in big trouble, living in sin in your eyes as its illegal to have sex before the age of 16 yet the UK has the highest number of teen pregnancies than any other country in the world.

Aside from that one of the bases and groundrules of law is not to meddle too much in peoples private lifes. If half yr family is in law then you should know this.

I also think youve not looked at the video, then you could see it was primarily max who was bend over on the receiving end of a few slaps on his butt.

[Ray]

Physical abuse is not morally okay. Consensual or not.

[donskar]

Ickx also has come out for Max to go.

Queston: WHO HAS SIDED WITH MAX?

On a personal note, how many of you have daughters? I have three between 20 and 30 years of age. I would not want Max to get within 50 feet of any one of them. And for those of you who think Max's actions were perfectly OK, I feel sad. He was morally wrong; according to another post, he was also legally wrong; and he showed extremely poor judgement for one in his position.

This thread and the rant it spun off exemplify Eric Ambler's line: "What is a man but an ape in velvet?" I hope some of you will go back and re-read your comments in this and the related rant it led to.

[Ciro Pabón]

As always, youre exagerating and dramatise the facts.

Im sorry for you but this is 2008 not 1950. Youd be amazed and probably shocked what people do for sex these days. If the law was the minimum then half of juvenile England would be in big trouble, living in sin in your eyes as its illegal to have sex before the age of 16 yet the UK has the highest number of teen pregnancies than any other country in the world.

Aside from that one of the bases and groundrules of law is not to meddle too much in peoples private lifes. If half yr family is in law then you should know this.

I also think youve not looked at the video, then you could see it was primarily max who was bend over on the receiving end of a few slaps on his butt.

As moderator, please attack the post, not the poster, ehem. I'm not asking you to be charming, but your "mandoline" is failing.

Now, as a poster, I won't rebate your assumptions about my personal life, but you're confusing the fact that I explained UK laws with my own opinion of them: I'm not the one that makes the laws in England.

Here is the link, to prove that S&M it's illegal in England, given the fact that you didn't read it, even while you study laws: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spanner

I agree with you, it seems the most restrictive regulation in the world and certainly (thanks heaven) it doesn't apply in my country. However, in the words of Lord Justice Temple, in a split 3-2 decission:

I am not prepared to invent a defence of consent for sadomasochistic encounters which breed and glorify cruelty [...]. Society is entitled and bound to protect itself against a cult of violence. Pleasure derived from the infliction of pain is an evil thing. Cruelty is uncivilized.
(R v Brown (1993) 2 All ER 75)

As you can imagine, the persons sentenced for S&M (to 4 years in jail, if I remember well) took the case to the European Court. The Court said:

The present case was judged by the European Court to have fallen within the sovereign scope of the UK Government's right to determine its legality, and human rights legislation would not overrule this.

... the amount of physical or psychological harm that the law allows between any two people, even consenting adults, is to be determined by the State the individuals live in
(Laskard, Jaggard and Brown vs United Kingdom)

So, the allegations of Mr. Mosley, another less than optimum lawyer, ehem, about doing nothing illegal, don't hold water. If you're going to plan a defense, you have to do it following the current laws in your jurisdiction. So, the argument that the limits are "blurry" is incompetent, from the legal technical point of view. QED.

Actually, even filming S&M is illegal in England: in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill of 2007, the UK government used the Spanner case as justification for

...criminalising images of consensual acts, as part of its proposed criminalisation of possession of "extreme pornography".
(Brown [1994] 1 AC 212)

So, criminal charges should be raised not only on Mosley but on NOTW. Before you say it, I know it seems politically unfeasible, and probably incomprehensible (as it seems it happens in this thread) for people not familiar with UK law, like me, but you never know what a young lawyer could do to get some notoriety...

Anything else?

[G-Rock]

I like to stay out of peoples bedrooms/closets. I think the government should do the same and as far a F1 goes, it never claimed to be the moral example for its fans to follow.
What Max did wasn't legally wrong because there was no evidence so leave him alone. The rest is up to his wife.