Ferrari 150° Italia

[beelsebob]

Could the suspension failures of Massa be related to the resonating front wing???

What im thinking is the resonance in the wing is going thru the nose box and shaking the front end to shreds and the aero being slightly more lumpy giving unusual aero loads, coupled with the way Massa was consistently hitting those negative valalungas thus creating unusual stress on the components used.

I asked that earlier in the thread, I suspect it may be the case. We've not heard anything about them having new suspension, and it didn't seem to be a problem for Alonso who didn't have the flappy wing at any point. It's also interesting that both suspension failures happened only a few laps after having the flappy wing on.

It could just be that Massa is being more aggressive than Alonso on the kerbs, but I have a suspicion that it's to do with that wing.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I think the suspension failure today was from the contact with HAM as he also complained of vibrations after the incident. I don't think the wing had anything to do with it. Both drivers used the same wing.

[beelsebob]

I think the suspension failure today was from the contact with HAM as he also complained of vibrations after the incident. I don't think the wing had anything to do with it. Both drivers used the same wing.

I'm not sure how that would work though – he got barely a tap on the front wheel from HAM's front wing, I can't imagine that being sufficient, especially with the lateral loads the suspension normally has to undergo.

[myurr]

I think that it was simply a case of Massa consistently taking more curb than everyone else. He hit them time and time again, including the time where it failed - both in qualifying and the race. Alonso was giving them a little more respect.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I think the suspension failure today was from the contact with HAM as he also complained of vibrations after the incident. I don't think the wing had anything to do with it. Both drivers used the same wing.

I'm not sure how that would work though – he got barely a tap on the front wheel from HAM's front wing, I can't imagine that being sufficient, especially with the lateral loads the suspension normally has to undergo.

If you look at the replay you will see that Massa's left front takes quite a knock from HAM's car. Is that the cause, I don't know. Either way it couldn't have helped.

[tommylommykins]

Could the suspension failures of Massa be related to the resonating front wing???

What im thinking is the resonance in the wing is going thru the nose box and shaking the front end to shreds and the aero being slightly more lumpy giving unusual aero loads, coupled with the way Massa was consistently hitting those negative valalungas thus creating unusual stress on the components used.

I asked that earlier in the thread, I suspect it may be the case. We've not heard anything about them having new suspension, and it didn't seem to be a problem for Alonso who didn't have the flappy wing at any point. It's also interesting that both suspension failures happened only a few laps after having the flappy wing on.

It could just be that Massa is being more aggressive than Alonso on the kerbs, but I have a suspicion that it's to do with that wing.

I'd make the strong assumption that the wing flutter did not contribute to the suspension failure. The wing will send roughly the same direction of forces to the suspension equipment as the forces recieved through the suspension arms.

The car can deal quite well with those forces... Even bumps that send the car flying do not necessirily break the suspension, and those bumps are strong enough to visibly move the entire car.

I therefore find it hard to believe that the flutter of the wing, which has insignificant mass, and did not cause the entire car to vibrate, would cause any damage at all to the suspension.

[shelly]

It seems that the wobbling behaviour of the front wing develops after some laps.
If this is the case, that could explain why it was seen on massa's car on friday (he probably was running the wing alonso raced in korea) and then again in the later stages of the race.

Strange fact that neither in korea nor here alonso's car suffered from this vibration. It could be due to his smoother dirving and staying awy from kerbs, or just becuase the wing starts to vibrate just in special combination of factors.

IIRc, we have seen it wobbling tow times only, in the same lace of the track.

Anyway, I find interesting the interview alonso relased in korea, in which he said that racing the wing had bee important in order to get information about its behaviour and about "where the wing develops cracks". Probably when it develops too many cracks it starts to vibrate.

[ringo]

I think the suspension failure today was from the contact with HAM as he also complained of vibrations after the incident. I don't think the wing had anything to do with it. Both drivers used the same wing.

It had nothing to do with contact with hamilton or the wing.
Did any of those cause it to break in practice?

There is something called impact force. The wheel simply had extremley high acceleration based on the curvature of the curb, more than the suspension can take, and the suspension failed.

Nothing more nothing less.

[yener]

There are some rumours that Ferrari tried to copy Mark Webbers wing. Mark Webber lost his front wing in Monza and it just dissapeared and RB never got to see it again.

I think the system is so complicated that they need more time to improve the front wing and make it flex like RB does.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I think the suspension failure today was from the contact with HAM as he also complained of vibrations after the incident. I don't think the wing had anything to do with it. Both drivers used the same wing.

It had nothing to do with contact with hamilton or the wing.
Did any of those cause it to break in practice?

There is something called impact force. The wheel simply had extremley high acceleration based on the curvature of the curb, more than the suspension can take, and the suspension failed.

Nothing more nothing less.

I don't remember. Did Massa have contact with Hamilton is practice on the front left? I don't believe so. I also said I believed it wasn't the wing. I do however believe the big knock his front left took from the incident with Hamilton weakened the front suspension along with the sheer force you described both contributed to the failure. But I won't be as matter of fact as you because I'm not a Ferrari engineer.

[munudeges]

They obviously don't have any idea how it works because the aerodynamic balance looks all wrong. The only time Red Bull's front wing flexed like that was in Hungary last year and it was a lot more controlled.

There is certainly fuel to the fire that they've just copied this from somewhere.

[ringo]

I think the suspension failure today was from the contact with HAM as he also complained of vibrations after the incident. I don't think the wing had anything to do with it. Both drivers used the same wing.

It had nothing to do with contact with hamilton or the wing.
Did any of those cause it to break in practice?

There is something called impact force. The wheel simply had extremley high acceleration based on the curvature of the curb, more than the suspension can take, and the suspension failed.

Nothing more nothing less.

I don't remember. Did Massa have contact with Hamilton is practice on the front left? I don't believe so. I also said I believed it wasn't the wing. I do however believe the big knock his front left took from the incident with Hamilton weakened the front suspension along with the sheer force you described both contributed to the failure. But I won't be as matter of fact as you because I'm not a Ferrari engineer.

The knock from Hamilton didn't fully compress Massa's suspension.
The knock from the rock fully compressed the suspension, then the forces went into wishbones and upright.
It's a matter of the impact force exceeding the design limits.
High impacts have a way of multiplying forces. In some cases impact be can be double the static force.

The failure in practice on the right side is the exact same cause as that on the left.

[Owen.C93]

It did break at the pushrod attachment at the wheel though, so something to strengthen in the future.

[timbo]

They obviously don't have any idea how it works because the aerodynamic balance looks all wrong.

How's that? Both cars had a reasonable pace in the qualifying and in the race despite having to use harder tyre.

[PlatinumZealot]

It did break at the pushrod attachment at the wheel though, so something to strengthen in the future.

It was an impact so if it were to be strengthened the thickness of that joint would be many times bigger.

It's just that "sausage" curb being too big and Massa erring driving over it. I really do think even a SUV would have had some damage running over those things at that speed.