Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[roon]

So a slight loss of insulation trumps adding a 4mm bump in the engine cover.

[Big Tea]

Do you mean on the side of the exhaust manifold (the engine partially covered by a blanket) ?

Yeh, the outer edge of the pipe, as if it had scuffed the panel, but has a definite 'border' around the area.
Just below the stainless pipe between the flexibles.

Ah, that's for clearance to car bits.
The manifold is wrapped in an insulating layer held together by a very thin stainless steel sheet. Those clearance dimples are done by locally removing the insulating layer so there's just the sheet steel. They are much more obvious on last year's engine.

Thanks. I thought perhaps it was a location for a probe or something.

[63l8qrrfy6]

I think the only instrumentation on the exhaust manifolds is the lambda sensors but those have fairly obvious M18 bosses. Even when bunged they should still be very easy to spot.

[dans79]

https://www.racefans.net/2018/08/03/mer ... akthrough/

However Wolff said he may give Mercedes’s power unit team, led by Andy Cowell, more time to work on their next upgrade.

“[Andy’s] a super-motivated guy. All his lieutenants and troops are. We see what can be achieved and what needs to be achieved.

“At the moment we are in an interesting phase on the third engine and we are trying to extrapolate how much performance gain we can find until Spa and Monza. Only once we know that number we will be able to decide whether we need to postpone or do something else.”

[PlatinumZealot]

I called it. Ferrari has surpassed Mercedes in brute power. Definitely over 1000hp now.

[dans79]

I called it. Ferrari has surpassed Mercedes in brute power. Definitely over 1000hp now.

I have an idea about what Ferrari is doing, and I don't think it wold be that hard for Mercedes to duplicate/copy.

[LM10]

I called it. Ferrari has surpassed Mercedes in brute power. Definitely over 1000hp now.

I have an idea about what Ferrari is doing, and I don't think it wold be that hard for Mercedes to duplicate/copy.

Might be, but if that was the case, why didn’t they put effort into copying instead of pressurizing FIA to investigate it? From a logical point of view they shouldn’t try the “trick” to be banned, if they plan to simply copy it.

[dans79]

Might be, but if that was the case, why didn’t they put effort into copying instead of pressurizing FIA to investigate it? From a logical point of view they shouldn’t try the “trick” to be banned, if they plan to simply copy it.

That's not how F1 politics works. First you question the FIA about the legality of something directly or indirectly. If its deemed illegal you hurt your competition who is doing it, and don't waste any of your resources. If its legal you know you are safe to do it as well, and you probably learned something about what your competition was doing along the way.

[MtthsMlw]

I have an idea about what Ferrari is doing, and I don't think it wold be that hard for Mercedes to duplicate/copy.

Share it with us

[LM10]

Might be, but if that was the case, why didn’t they put effort into copying instead of pressurizing FIA to investigate it? From a logical point of view they shouldn’t try the “trick” to be banned, if they plan to simply copy it.

That's not how F1 politics works. First you question the FIA about the legality of something directly or indirectly. If its deemed illegal you hurt your competition who is doing it, and don't waste any of your resources. If its legal you know you are safe to do it as well, and you probably learned something about what your competition was doing along the way.

That’s true.

[dans79]

I have an idea about what Ferrari is doing, and I don't think it wold be that hard for Mercedes to duplicate/copy.

Share it with us

To me it all comes back to the 2 batteries comment by Charlie, and the other various rumors about switching, variable resistance, and the like.

For any type of battery tech, you have trade offs between cell capacity, cell charge rates, and charging cycles. Its the classical trade-off triangle, to maximize 1 metric you have to compromise on the other 2. I assume Ferrari has multiple cell types in the ES so they can switch between high storage capacity, high discharge rate, etc.

The second part of this would be the turbo and MGU-H. I'm less sure on this part as it's not my area of expertise. If you wired each coil individually, you would have the ability to alter how much power it consumes/generates at a given rpm by turning coils on and off. You could also send power to the ES and MGU-k at the same time. I think it might even be possible to have the MGU-H act as a motor and a generator at the same time.

I believe the two combined could offer a non trivial performance increase. It might also be why Mercedes could delay the spec 3 PU. While conceptually simple, it would take time to validate the performance/reliability trade-off.

[Tommy Cookers]

the H (and K) had from day 1 continuous variability of motoring or generating power wrt rpm
by continuous variation of eg the magnitude of the pulses of electrical energy sent to the MGs by the CUs
eg to smoothly transition from H motoring to H generating as power available at the turbine goes from insufficient to surplus
the power of the H doesn't snap from say max kW to - max kW
usually it snaps eg from 1 kW to -1 kW in sweeping from max kW (motoring) to -max kW (generation)

though additionally it could continuously snap from max kW to - max kW - providing pseudo-simultaneous motoring and generation
if that was useful

[dans79]

the H (and K) had from day 1 continuous variability of motoring or generating power wrt rpm
by continuous variation of eg the magnitude of the pulses of electrical energy sent to the MGs by the CUs
eg to smoothly transition from H motoring to H generating as power available at the turbine goes from insufficient to surplus
the power of the H doesn't snap from 120 kW to - 120 kW - it snaps eg from 1 kW to -1 kW

What I'm suggesting would be on top of, or along side (deepening on how you look at it) the modulation.

[GrandAxe]

I posted on the equivalent Ferrari to this, that it should be possible to drive the MGU-H from the engine through an alternator (since there are no limits to electrical connections to the MGU-H, the rules only cover mechanical ones).

In summary; within the rules, the ICE can continuously drive the MGU-H, which in turn can continuously drive the MGU-K (even when not harvesting), since the rules allow the MGU-H to provide the MGU-K with an unlimited amount of energy.

This would allow a gain in power by bypassing the friction generating parts of the drive train eg. gearbox etc.

The only (somewhat contentious) limiting factor according to the discussion on that thread is the 120kw limit the MGU-K is allowed.

[GrandAxe]

I just saw this.

5.2.3 The MGU-K must be solely and permanently mechanically linked to the powertrain before the
main clutch. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the engine crankshaft.

It makes bypassing the gearbox impossible. However the loophole for continuous driving of the MGU-H is still possible.