Ferrari 150° Italia

[Pierce89]

it´s sad to see how ferrari is copying the red bull.

but did you see the wing from massa passing a hrt?

It's sad to see posts like this in the car threads.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

it´s sad to see how ferrari is copying the red bull.

but did you see the wing from massa passing a hrt?

It's sad to see posts like this in the car threads.

Agreed 110%. I believe the Scuderia will have some new tricks of their own(per se) more so than copying other teams. The team is trying new updates, and it's not just the FW they're trying.

[shelly]

Why do you think posts like SICK AL are sad?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

It had nothing to do with contact with hamilton or the wing.
Did any of those cause it to break in practice?

There is something called impact force. The wheel simply had extremley high acceleration based on the curvature of the curb, more than the suspension can take, and the suspension failed.

Nothing more nothing less.

The knock from Hamilton didn't fully compress Massa's suspension.
The knock from the rock fully compressed the suspension, then the forces went into wishbones and upright.
It's a matter of the impact force exceeding the design limits.
High impacts have a way of multiplying forces. In some cases impact be can be double the static force.

The failure in practice on the right side is the exact same cause as that on the left.

Pat Fry: “There are many elements worthy of note that have come out of this weekend in India. Again today, we had a suspension failure, this time the front left on Felipe’s car: first analysis indicates the break was generated by a series of factors, starting with the collision with Hamilton. After that came the punctured tyre and it ended with the impact with the kerb. As for the front wing used on Felipe’s car which has generated so much interest, we knew that in certain conditions, we could have been on the limit and when we saw that this situation might arise, we decided to change it for a different specification of wing. As for the race, we managed with our strategy to stay out on track longer than our closest opponent, taking back from Webber the position we had lost at the start to Button, thus getting Fernando to the podium. Honestly, our performance today did not allow us to fight for the win. On the Hard tyre, which we have not raced on since Barcelona, the pace wasn’t bad, which is a sign that improvements introduced during the year on the car have seen us make progress in an area that was very difficult for us at the start of the season. We are working on two fronts and everything we can learn now will be useful for the future: these are all opportunities which should be exploited when they present themselves.”

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formula1 ... india.aspx


Why you insist on always being absolutely 100% correct all the time is beyond me, however the truth is you aren't. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion. And it's just that, your opinion. No matter how much you try and state it as fact.

[PlatinumZealot]

suspension failure, this time the front left on Felipe’s car: first analysis indicates the break was generated by a series of factors, starting with the collision with Hamilton

I wonder what that analysis was. Massa told em' ? =D> Very good.
At least the circle is complete from Monza 2010. I hope the hatchet is burried after this.

[SICK AL]

it´s sad to see how ferrari is copying the red bull.

but did you see the wing from massa passing a hrt?

It's sad to see posts like this in the car threads.

Agreed 110%. I believe the Scuderia will have some new tricks of their own(per se) more so than copying other teams. The team is trying new updates, and it's not just the FW they're trying.

i love ferrari, it´s my favorite team. but i also like all the other teams and their philosophies. it´s obviously that ferrari is in doubt. lots of details you can find on the RB7. it´s just my comparison. the frontwing, the rake, the gurney on the diffuser, engine cover, the endplates ...

you don´t agree??

[ringo]

Pat Fry: “There are many elements worthy of note that have come out of this weekend in India. Again today, we had a suspension failure, this time the front left on Felipe’s car: first analysis indicates the break was generated by a series of factors, starting with the collision with Hamilton. After that came the punctured tyre and it ended with the impact with the kerb. As for the front wing used on Felipe’s car which has generated so much interest, we knew that in certain conditions, we could have been on the limit and when we saw that this situation might arise, we decided to change it for a different specification of wing. As for the race, we managed with our strategy to stay out on track longer than our closest opponent, taking back from Webber the position we had lost at the start to Button, thus getting Fernando to the podium. Honestly, our performance today did not allow us to fight for the win. On the Hard tyre, which we have not raced on since Barcelona, the pace wasn’t bad, which is a sign that improvements introduced during the year on the car have seen us make progress in an area that was very difficult for us at the start of the season. We are working on two fronts and everything we can learn now will be useful for the future: these are all opportunities which should be exploited when they present themselves.”

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formula1 ... india.aspx


Why you insist on always being absolutely 100% correct all the time is beyond me, however the truth is you aren't. You are most certainly entitled to your opinion. And it's just that, your opinion. No matter how much you try and state it as fact.

So what?
I don't depend on press releases to from an educated opinion. I don't have to be right all the time either.
The fact is, Massa broke the right suspension in practice purely by hitting the curb. So logically, it would not require any additional damage for him to break the same suspension on the left.
I don't think he needed a hit from Hamilton for it to fail.

Do you think if he didn't hit Hamilton, he could hit the curb and it didn't break?

The suspension would break just the same.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLRWbyCl ... re=related[/youtube]
Hamilton contributing doesn't mean it would not have broken if Massa keep running over that curb each time.
This is just an excuse by Massa.

In fact i have a feeling Hamilton only contributed to Massa's loss of concentration.
Pat fry didn't say there was structural damage from Hitting hamilton. He said it was a factor.

[shelly]

I agree that the suspension failure is just vaguely hamilton related.

having watched agai the wobbling wing, I think that as someone has already pointed out, the change in elevation of the track plays a major role, like in the notorius mercedes lemans flights of 1999. If this is the case, and if ferrari does not take action (which I doubt) we could see alot of it in brazil.

Anyway, my questions are:
-do you hink that the wobbling wing was the same as korea, or was it a light layup with the same external shape?
-do you think it was the same, with some production defect?
-why do you think we have seen the odd behaviour only 2 times, and not every lap?

I remeber a good book where it was recalled that in 1994 cars suffered from front wing failures due to unexpected loading coming form modified floor aerodynamics

[beelsebob]

-do you think that the wobbling wing was the same as korea, or was it a light layup with the same external shape?

Ted Kravitz was saying that he'd asked ferrari and that they'd said it was absolutely 100% identical in design, layup, etc. They claimed it was a production issue, more so, they claimed Alonso was racing an "identical" wing. He also said he'd asked a few other team's tech guys, who all stated that they can't imagine any way that a fault in manufacturing could ever cause something like that to happen. I guess we'll never know.

[shelly]

And what about the ing issue that alonso had on the starting grid? Does anyone have info on it?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

And what about the ing issue that alonso had on the starting grid? Does anyone have info on it?

Yes it was the LHS front flap adjuster they had to fix.

[Mr Alcatraz]

It seems that the wobbling behaviour of the front wing develops after some laps.
If this is the case, that could explain why it was seen on massa's car on friday (he probably was running the wing alonso raced in korea) and then again in the later stages of the race.

Strange fact that neither in korea nor here alonso's car suffered from this vibration. It could be due to his smoother dirving and staying awy from kerbs, or just becuase the wing starts to vibrate just in special combination of factors.

IIRc, we have seen it wobbling tow times only, in the same lace of the track.

Anyway, I find interesting the interview alonso relased in korea, in which he said that racing the wing had bee important in order to get information about its behaviour and about "where the wing develops cracks". Probably when it develops too many cracks it starts to vibrate.

You are correct in the part of your comment I emboldened. They mentioned on Speedtv that the information they got from Ferrari was that the wing did not oscillate until it reached a lower (fuel) weight. They also said that Ferrari "might" be planning on changing the wing after they reached that threshold. I tend to think this is true, and I also think they changed that wing ridiculously fast knowing they had planned it. Does someone have the stationary time for that pit stop? They also suggested that Fred's wing, and the one Massa broke in quali was somewhat of a hybrid (paraphrasing here) and that it was reinforced (I'm guessing at the leading edge) to give it more tensile strength, although it may have simply been in the bias configuration of the carbon fiber.

After re-viewing the race I feel pretty confident in saying that Massa’s suspension failure was from hitting one of those orange curb reinforcements. Although there may have been the other factors in play, my guess is that there were not, but tt is very difficult to quantify those factors.

[ell66]

Its pretty clear it was all of massas's own doing which caused the suspension to fail, do you not remember qually where he did the exact same thing only on the other side?

Besides in his collision with hamilton he was not hit on the left front.

amateur driver who Ferrari need to replace.

[raymondu999]

Ell Actually IIRC Massa was spun counterclockwise; and his left front slammed into Lewis's nose (car, not the driver) head on. This could have been a contributing factor; but whether or not it was is inconsequential; going by qualifying, it would have probably broken anyways (the suspension)

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Its pretty clear it was all of massas's own doing which caused the suspension to fail, do you not remember qually where he did the exact same thing only on the other side?

Besides in his collision with hamilton he was not hit on the left front.

amateur driver who Ferrari need to replace.

As raymondu999 posted its quite clear in the replay that Massa's left front was hit/slammed into Lewis's car. Whether or not that contributed to the failure is only speculation. It was probably just the kerb and the force of impact as Ringo suggested in earlier posts.