Ferrari 150° Italia

[marcush.]

Massa was very "guilty" how he chose his words:I broke the suspension ...when informing Smedley via intercom ...that maybe owed to him not being british but he could as well be at pains not to blame anybody but himself for the failure...
Strnge coincidence that Massas car had both front suspension lower wishbones failing in that event when he was the single guy who had those extreme front wing oscillations before that.No other car showed the oscillations or front wishbone issues.At least something to take note of ,if I were Ferrari.Of course we will never know the full story.

[Redragon]

Maybe this article in the spanish sport newspaper AS can help to the speculations about material used on suspension bones

http://www.as.com/motor/articulo/aleron ... imot_1/Tes

You can translate it with google translate, it is quite precise

[ringo]

The uprights may be the weak points.
The suspension failed at the base of the pushrod.

I suspect the joint at the base of the upright was where the failure occured.

Similar to this but more localized at the joint:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g2yHT3Zx7w[/youtube]

The uprights are stronger than Buemi' ofcourse, but the kind of hit that it took from the orange curb, is not normall experienced on track.

The car's aren't designed to do rock climbing at 150mph.

If you gave a vague knowledge on calculating accelerations on a cam shaft, you could get an idea of why the steepness of the rock, and the fact that the car came down on it caused the impact forces to surpass that of the designed force.

[Crabbia]

for me there is no mystery to the suspension failure or the wing oscillations. I feel that Massa was just running very soft suspension settings to allow him to attack the curbs. he was attacking the curbs hard all weekend, definitely more than alonso and consequently alsonso had a stiffer setup.

it was also the soft suspension i feel that allowed the oscillations in the wing to occur as with a stiff suspension the frequency of vibration would have been higher and you would not have had any resonance or constructive interference i suppose.

to me that explains why alonso didnt have the oscillations or the suspension failure but massa did.

[Richard]

Both failures do did seem to be in the pushrod/upright connection.

I didn't notice anyone else riding those orange kerbs, so maybe it was driver error.

The alternative is that Massa is running some 2012 components in a Ferari's bid to be more aggressive. Remember RB5 and RB6 had odd mechanical failures as Newey went for his approach of reducing something until it failed, then going back up one notch.

Personally, I think it was diver error.

[PlatinumZealot]

Both failures do did seem to be in the pushrod/upright connection.

I didn't notice anyone else riding those orange kerbs, so maybe it was driver error.

The alternative is that Massa is running some 2012 components in a Ferari's bid to be more aggressive. Remember RB5 and RB6 had odd mechanical failures as Newey went for his approach of reducing something until it failed, then going back up one notch.

Personally, I think it was diver error.

On the track? This man should be in prison then!

[timbo]

I didn't notice anyone else riding those orange kerbs, so maybe it was driver error.

I've seen Petrov being quite hard on the kerbs in the race, but there's too little onboards for some reason.

[Richard]

On the track? This man should be in prison then!

Yes, on track. Every F1 car is an untested prototype.

Better I'll not debate RB in this thread

[PlatinumZealot]

But the parts are tested.

[aleks_ader]

But the parts are tested.

LOL

[Richard]

Two factors:
- Redundancy results in a slower car.
- Real life is not always exactly as forecast.

Newey has a reputation for fragile cars because he strips out any element of redundancy. That's fine until the unexpected happens, such as a big kerb in India, or a hot track causes KERS to overheat.

It would be interesting to know if any other diver hit those orange kerbs, or was Massa the only one? That would indicate if it was driver error, or an undersized suspension component.

[Lurk]

Massa was the only one to go always on these kerbs. The others avoided them and only sometimes went wider and hitted them.


Going back to the front wing, it remind me Vettel wing at Spa last year when he was following Button and crashed into him. His wing was flexing a lot more than usual too - even for a RBR wing.

[aral]

Two factors:
- Redundancy results in a slower car.
- Real life is not always exactly as forecast.

Newey has a reputation for fragile cars because he strips out any element of redundancy. That's fine until the unexpected happens, such as a big kerb in India, or a hot track causes KERS to overheat.

It would be interesting to know if any other diver hit those orange kerbs, or was Massa the only one? That would indicate if it was driver error, or an undersized suspension component.

The failure of Massa's lhf suspension can partially be attributed to the fact that his front wheel received a fair whack from Hamiltons rhf wheel, in their coming together. Apart from that, all teams build to the minimum needed.

And to LURK, all cars were cutting the corner. Schumacher was told to stay off the kerb, after Massa's incident. Soil had been torn away from the concrete kerb, and as the race progressed, the problem became greater. The soil erosion had become an issue in practice, when Massa suffered in the same way.
Ferrari are not the only team to have suffered suspension failure this year.

[Lurk]

It was only a reminder for Schumacher. Like i said the others usually avoided these orange kerbs. On the driver meeting, Massa complained about these kerbs but he was the only one. The others didn't understand what the problem was. Trulli said he has just to do like the others and avoid them.

You could also read what Webber and Hamilton think about these sausages

Red Bull’s Mark Webber, however, offered Massa his thoughts on how to avoid a similar accident.

“I think Kamui (Kobayashi) hit it yesterday with the middle of the chassis (on his Sauber) and he went into the air,” said Webber.

“So maybe it’s better to misjudge it a lot more than just misjudge it by not much.

“I suppose you try and stay away from them. That’s the best thing, but it’s not always easy.”

As for Hamilton, he is unsure what Massa is complaining about as he said: “I think they’re the best kerbs we’ve had.

“As for the orange parts they are a lot shallower, not as high or steep as at some of the other circuits.

“They’ve done a great job with them. You can ride the rest of the kerb and they’re quite wide. Normally, you can lose a bit of time on them, but I think they’re great.”

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/other/ ... z1ceJ8nYEK

[scuderiafan]

I don't think the wobbly-wing had anything to do with it. I believe it was a mix between some suspension parts that were on the edge of their strength/weight ratio, how Massa was driving, and the setup that was chosen for the Ferrari.