Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[F1NAC]

Engine settings.
Any idea what Strat 10 stands for?

https://i.imgur.com/HPE4bVz.png

Strat 1 Recharge

Strat 2 Quali (0.11)

Strat 3 Race Plus High SOC (0.00)

Strat 4 Race Plus Low SOC (0.00)

Strat 5 Race Plus Deploy SOC (0.04)

Strat 6 Race High SOC (0.11)

Strat 7 Race Low SOC (0.00)

Strat 8 Race Deploy (0.00)

Strat 9 Race Save High SOC (0.31)

Strat 10 PSI (0.18)

Strat 11 Race Save Deploy (0.29)

Strat 12 Race Save 100 Deploy (0.18)

From u/Spongebob3320 on Reddit.

Pit Stop Inlap?

[PlatinumZealot]

Is there anything specifically stopping the alternator being used as a second mgu-k?

I had that idea when RBR kept burning them up during their championship run, but I don't recall ever getting an answer.

Weight obviously. And circuitry. 90% of the time you will have a big bulky motor generator acting as an alternator only powering ECU dash light and supporting sensors. For saftey it must have an independent battery i suspect. And this battery, if it exits, would be small and light for similar reasons?

[Zynerji]

Is there anything specifically stopping the alternator being used as a second mgu-k?

I had that idea when RBR kept burning them up during their championship run, but I don't recall ever getting an answer.

Weight obviously. And circuitry. 90% of the time you will have a big bulky motor generator acting as an alternator only powering ECU dash light and supporting sensors. For saftey it must have an independent battery i suspect. And this battery, if it exits, would be small and light for similar reasons?

I mean, all you would really need is to reverse the polarity...

[PlatinumZealot]

How much power do you think would would transfer in an alternator design to keep dash boards and ECU lit? Not much..
f1 alternators are probably even smaller than street car alternators. They have no headlights or ac blower fans or any of thos heavy anciliaries.

[Zynerji]

How much power do you think would would transfer in an alternator design to keep dash boards and ECU lit? Not much..
f1 alternators are probably even smaller than street car alternators. They have no headlights or ac blower fans or any of thos heavy anciliaries.

For a 2 hour race, one could question why they are needed at all then... Especially since they only take power from the crank to operate..

[PlatinumZealot]

How much power do you think would would transfer in an alternator design to keep dash boards and ECU lit? Not much..
f1 alternators are probably even smaller than street car alternators. They have no headlights or ac blower fans or any of thos heavy anciliaries.

For a 2 hour race, one could question why they are needed at all then... Especially since they only take power from the crank to operate..

They N/A cars did have alternators. And sometimes they did break. That's how little and delicate they were because they didn't have a huge electrical load. Probably were air cooled. Battery probably very small too.
I don't even know if the Hybrid rules allow a second battery for the onboard systems. Would be nice if someone can confirm.

[Big Tea]

How much power do you think would would transfer in an alternator design to keep dash boards and ECU lit? Not much..
f1 alternators are probably even smaller than street car alternators. They have no headlights or ac blower fans or any of thos heavy anciliaries.

For a 2 hour race, one could question why they are needed at all then... Especially since they only take power from the crank to operate..

I was thinking this. Could not the needs be met from the main power store but not be counted as 'used' as it is tapped at a different point? The sensors measure in and out for the motors but a 12 v supply from unit would not need to be monitored, even if it had a hard limit to stop cheating.

[Mr.G]

How much power do you think would would transfer in an alternator design to keep dash boards and ECU lit? Not much..
f1 alternators are probably even smaller than street car alternators. They have no headlights or ac blower fans or any of thos heavy anciliaries.

For a 2 hour race, one could question why they are needed at all then... Especially since they only take power from the crank to operate..

They N/A cars did have alternators. And sometimes they did break. That's how little and delicate they were because they didn't have a huge electrical load. Probably were air cooled. Battery probably very small too.
I don't even know if the Hybrid rules allow a second battery for the onboard systems. Would be nice if someone can confirm.

Yes it does. Search for the flow diagram picture...

[MtthsMlw]

Engine settings.
Any idea what Strat 10 stands for?

https://i.imgur.com/HPE4bVz.png

Strat 1 Recharge

Strat 2 Quali (0.11)

Strat 3 Race Plus High SOC (0.00)

Strat 4 Race Plus Low SOC (0.00)

Strat 5 Race Plus Deploy SOC (0.04)

Strat 6 Race High SOC (0.11)

Strat 7 Race Low SOC (0.00)

Strat 8 Race Deploy (0.00)

Strat 9 Race Save High SOC (0.31)

Strat 10 PSI (0.18)

Strat 11 Race Save Deploy (0.29)

Strat 12 Race Save 100 Deploy (0.18)

From u/Spongebob3320 on Reddit.

Pit Stop Inlap?

I watched the onboard and Ham was told to use Strat 10 on his outlap after stopping for Softs. So PS seems to stand for Pit Stop and its a high power mode.

[AJI]

How much power do you think would would transfer in an alternator design to keep dash boards and ECU lit? Not much..
f1 alternators are probably even smaller than street car alternators. They have no headlights or ac blower fans or any of thos heavy anciliaries.

For a 2 hour race, one could question why they are needed at all then... Especially since they only take power from the crank to operate..

I was thinking this. Could not the needs be met from the main power store but not be counted as 'used' as it is tapped at a different point? The sensors measure in and out for the motors but a 12 v supply from unit would not need to be monitored, even if it had a hard limit to stop cheating.

The flow diagram shows an unlimited path between the ES and 'other ancillaries'. I wonder if the cars even have an ancillary alternator? They certainly don't need one...

[Mr.G]

For a 2 hour race, one could question why they are needed at all then... Especially since they only take power from the crank to operate..

I was thinking this. Could not the needs be met from the main power store but not be counted as 'used' as it is tapped at a different point? The sensors measure in and out for the motors but a 12 v supply from unit would not need to be monitored, even if it had a hard limit to stop cheating.

The flow diagram shows an unlimited path between the ES and 'other ancillaries'. I wonder if the cars even have an ancillary alternator? They certainly don't need one...

Fuel supply pump? Radios, any other electronic?

[AJI]

I was thinking this. Could not the needs be met from the main power store but not be counted as 'used' as it is tapped at a different point? The sensors measure in and out for the motors but a 12 v supply from unit would not need to be monitored, even if it had a hard limit to stop cheating.

The flow diagram shows an unlimited path between the ES and 'other ancillaries'. I wonder if the cars even have an ancillary alternator? They certainly don't need one...

Fuel supply pump? Radios, any other electronic?

Of course, but my point is that they already have a 120kW 'alternator' permanently driven by the crankshaft and another ~90kW one driven by exhaust, both of which charge the ES. There is also a provision in the rules to access unlimited energy from the ES and also store an additional 300kJ of energy outside of the ES specifically for running other ancillaries. Why would they even need another alternator?

[Mr.G]

The flow diagram shows an unlimited path between the ES and 'other ancillaries'. I wonder if the cars even have an ancillary alternator? They certainly don't need one...

Fuel supply pump? Radios, any other electronic?

Of course, but my point is that they already have a 120kW 'alternator' permanently driven by the crankshaft and another ~90kW one driven by exhaust, both of which charge the ES. There is also a provision in the rules to access unlimited energy from the ES and also store an additional 30kJ of energy outside of the ES specifically for running other ancillaries. Why would they even need another alternator?

Efficiency? Power conversion? Stability? MGU-H/K are probably 400/700V systems... Ancillaries are 12-15V... Safety? No need for special insulation?

[Big Tea]

The flow diagram shows an unlimited path between the ES and 'other ancillaries'. I wonder if the cars even have an ancillary alternator? They certainly don't need one...

Fuel supply pump? Radios, any other electronic?

Of course, but my point is that they already have a 120kW 'alternator' permanently driven by the crankshaft and another ~90kW one driven by exhaust, both of which charge the ES. There is also a provision in the rules to access unlimited energy from the ES and also store an additional 30kJ of energy outside of the ES specifically for running other ancillaries. Why would they even need another alternator?

An engine driven alternator also loads the engine and puts extra friction + weight +inertia

[AJI]

Fuel supply pump? Radios, any other electronic?

Of course, but my point is that they already have a 120kW 'alternator' permanently driven by the crankshaft and another ~90kW one driven by exhaust, both of which charge the ES. There is also a provision in the rules to access unlimited energy from the ES and also store an additional 300kJ of energy outside of the ES specifically for running other ancillaries. Why would they even need another alternator?

Efficiency? Power conversion? Stability? MGU-H/K are probably 400/700V systems... Ancillaries are 12-15V... Safety? No need for special insulation?

The main reason I don't think they have an ancillary alternator is because they are allowed to use the ES, so what would be the point? I am happy to be proven wrong, but to address your specific concerns:

-If your going for efficiency then not having another alternator is sensible, not to mention weight saving. A lot of race cars and bikes don't have an alternator for this reason, just a battery.
-Power conversion isn't really a problem, step-up or down is common in most electronics.
-A 25kg battery pack is pretty stable. They must hold somewhere around 12MJ of capacity and the ancillaries only need a tiny fraction of that. The ancillaries also have their own separate 300kJ buffer. I assume this is for stability?
Almost anything that can be driven by a hydraulic system is driven by the car's hydraulic system, from high pressure pumps right down to throttle butterflies. There is very little ancillary power required. The ECU is probably the most power hungry..?
- The ERS system is limited to 1000V and I'm pretty sure the manufacturers would try and get as close as possible to that number. Just step it down to 12v for ancillaries.
-Safety? How?
-Insulation... There is ~1000V all over the place on a PU. I don't think that's a problem, however, interference could be?