McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes (pre-launch speculation)

[dren]

I am going to say it here first. The MP4-27 will be the car to beat in 2012. Button will become WC with one race to go.

[Richard]

Any evidence?

[raymondu999]

What Richard said. That's a bold statement to be making, months before we even have seen the new Pirellis, the new cars, or even testing. Heck we haven't even seen the 2012-spec exhausts on most cars.

[dren]

If you can wait about 11 months, I'll have some. I think Mclaren has a better grip with tires. That will be a big bonus next year.

[wesley123]

That is really wishful thinking. To be honest I doubt the orders to be any different next year.

[MIKEY_!]

I think it's a waste of time to be making serious predictions at this point. Saying what we want to happen is a different matter of course but that's for another thread.

[Tyler]

I am going to say it here first. The MP4-27 will be the car to beat in 2012. Button will become WC with one race to go.

Never count out McLaren!
Also Newey is a genius but he doesn't always get it right (think the McLaren MP4-19.
In fact if we look back to the late 90's Newey's cars won two championships in '98 and '99.
From there he had quite a long dry spell including one big failure (see above).
It also stands to reason that a team profiting the most under a set of rules has the most to lose should these rules change.
The battle between Hamilton and Button is going to be very interesting to see, if McLaren do have the quickest car next year.
I can't wait!

[Shrieker]

Offtopic, but if the McLaren ends up being the fastest car by a mile, how does Jenson win it and not Hamilton ? All his mistakes this year happened because he rushed things to catch up to Vettel in many races and kept tripping over. Arguably, he'd have been a lot more patient had he wanted to finish ahead of Massa, Alonso,Webber or Button.

[wesley123]

Doesnt matter if it does or does not, it is just too soon to say, or to even make a prediction.

But let's get back OT;
What do we think is going to happen to the new car?

One thing I am quite sure of is it will feauture a new front wing. Let's be honest, the one they ran last year is quite old. It doesnt have any of the things that was spotted last year or years before that became trends. Plus it needs to balance out the rear end.

I hope for once though they don't goa and say; look guys we have made something incredible, brag about it and then it doesnt work or after 2 weeks the whole field found out what it was. I just hope they make a car that is built on where the 26 left off, so keep the U-sidepods, but lower the crashbox for instance. I have said it before, I believe the lwoer crashbox(and better exposed beamwing) has more effect on the U-sidepod. You can create an tunnel of air that goes through the U all the way under the beamwing, where others have their air going over the sidepod or down the sides.

[ringo]

I am going to say it here first. The MP4-27 will be the car to beat in 2012. Button will become WC with one race to go.

Never count out McLaren!
Also Newey is a genius but he doesn't always get it right (think the McLaren MP4-19.
In fact if we look back to the late 90's Newey's cars won two championships in '98 and '99.
From there he had quite a long dry spell including one big failure (see above).
It also stands to reason that a team profiting the most under a set of rules has the most to lose should these rules change.
The battle between Hamilton and Button is going to be very interesting to see, if McLaren do have the quickest car next year.
I can't wait!

The big picture is that he wont get it wrong from now on. We can't look at the past and create some kind of cyclic trend. You have to look on the accumulation of knowledge over the years. He's at a point where he sees how a whole car needs to work to make it a fast as the regulations allow.

Newey knows all the ingredients to accomplish this and those ingredients will stand up to next year and beyond. He is more knowledgeable than anyone else and that is what sets him apart from them, not so much his creativity. He's not throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping that it sticks. He is designing the cars with indifference to tradition, style, convention, and any other biases that may hinder a design.
He's not a cake decorator like the others, drawing a car a certain way because it "looks fast", he's a mathematician more than a designer and that makes him very dangerous as Mclaren's competition.

If Newey is designing a whole car with level 10 sorcery, there is no way Mclaren can use entry level party tricks to design a mere wing and a nose and hope to beat him.
Worst of all in order to be at his level you will have to learn from his work.
How can you beat a man at the very thing he put into place?

Newey is the enlightened one, the others are pretenders. I don't see a dominant Mclaren next year. They can try to come within 2 tenths a lap and thats about it. I'd be happy for that at least.

But they need something really out of this world, and with the ever tightening regs, i don't really see that happening.

[donskar]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[xpensive]

...
Newey is the enlightened one, the others are pretenders.
...

I have considered that as well, but if Adrian Newey is Faust, Harry Angel or Dorian Gray, then what?

[Richard]

The RB debate is interesting but way off topic, so I've started a new thread about it .... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11470

[dren]

Doesnt matter if it does or does not, it is just too soon to say, or to even make a prediction.

But let's get back OT;
What do we think is going to happen to the new car?

One thing I am quite sure of is it will feauture a new front wing. Let's be honest, the one they ran last year is quite old. It doesnt have any of the things that was spotted last year or years before that became trends. Plus it needs to balance out the rear end.

I hope for once though they don't goa and say; look guys we have made something incredible, brag about it and then it doesnt work or after 2 weeks the whole field found out what it was. I just hope they make a car that is built on where the 26 left off, so keep the U-sidepods, but lower the crashbox for instance. I have said it before, I believe the lwoer crashbox(and better exposed beamwing) has more effect on the U-sidepod. You can create an tunnel of air that goes through the U all the way under the beamwing, where others have their air going over the sidepod or down the sides.

Is that more efficient than having ot flow over the sidepods though? I don't know. I do expect the U pods to return and be more sculpted. A new front wing as well, like you stated. They have had good luck with the snow plow front nose, so I expect that to return also.

[wesley123]

I cannot confirm it any way but the point of the u-sidepod was that it allows more air to the beam wing. I think that by allowing air between the U flow all the way over the crashbox above and under the beamwing you can create better downforce. The route of this is much shorter then when you compare it to Red Bull's for example.

The snowplough I doubt it, afterall they have to balance out the rear and with the lower nose I think there isnt enough area to let the snowplough work good. Apart from that, I think that just the regular barge board under the nose are more efficient and less drag generating