2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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turbof1
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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Diesel wrote:So what is it in the regulations that's preventing them for just having nose cones like the Renault R25 or the McLaren MP4-21 ?

Like this...
http://exoticcars66.files.wordpress.com ... celona.jpg

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/l ... -R25_1.jpg
Those had a very different function, having both a low CoG and being lighter alltogether. Back then the diffuser didn't need to have so much airflow to it due front downforce being the limiting factor. Such a design would still hamper air to reach the underside of the floor. Airflow coming the side will not get guided to the underside of the nose.

How foolish from the FIA to neglect a top/bottom view to have a continueing mandated nose. Such a design was relative easy to predict. They can't change it now anymore, so we are effectively stuck with such designs. Perhaps the only hope is that it doesn't past the crash tests.
#AeroFrodo

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horse
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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turbof1 wrote:Back then the diffuser didn't need to have so much airflow to it due front downforce being the limiting factor.
Diffusers pre-2009 were much larger, restricting them was a major part of the 2009 regs. A key function of the diffuser is to improve the lift performance along the whole length of the floor, so not all of the gains of a larger diffuser need balanced by front downforce. In the pre-2009 regs there was more clean airflow below the front wing out towards the wheels.
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu

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turbof1
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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horse wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Back then the diffuser didn't need to have so much airflow to it due front downforce being the limiting factor.
Diffusers pre-2009 were much larger, restricting them was a major part of the 2009 regs. A key function of the diffuser is to improve the lift performance along the whole length of the floor, so not all of the gains of a larger diffuser need balanced by front downforce. In the pre-2009 regs there was more clean airflow below the front wing out towards the wheels.
We are basicilly saying the same thing :P. I merely simplified it; early 2000's when they were allowed to run front wings much closer to the ground, generating much more front downforce, noses were alot higher then afterwards, even though diffusers also were 66% larger then ones starting from 2005. Raising or lowering the nose is a structural solution since a couple of decades. It is true a larger diffuser and/or a higher nose adds downforce across the whole floor, but it still generates the most at the back, but there are several elements you have to take into account: aero balance, L/D and CoG are the most important ones. A higher nose would have given extra downforce along the whole car, but would also necessated more front downforce (keeping aero balance in check). These front wings were already heavily developed, and the best solution to add more would have been either to add extra elements, a higher AoA or both, which would decrease the L/D coefficient. Finally, a higher nose raises the CoG, something that has to be offset by advantages you get out of the extra L/D and if your aero balance remains, well, balanced.

So yeah basicilly again the same you said, but this time less simplified. As it stands today, teams generate more front downforce then rear downforce, necessating a higher nose. Next year that potentional balance shifts even more to the front. The 2008 solution isn't appliable.
#AeroFrodo

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horse
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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turbof1 wrote:We are basicilly saying the same thing :P
Yes, I see where you are coming from now. I thought you were implying that the diffuser was less powerful pre-2009, but I see now that is not the case. I think there were some rules about the pillars and wing centre section that produced that low nose design.
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu

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gary123
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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Image
http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/32568/ ... egole-2014
Here is what omnicorse thinks about the next year front design.

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theWPTformula
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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Owen.C93 wrote:
smirkoff wrote:Updating my 3D model...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/w6pyeb
I embedded it for you. Looks great!
http://i.imgur.com/qb2Z35P.jpg
This looks pretty good and seems to fit the regulation guidelines. Why couldnt the FIA just make the thin cross section thicker? It would solve everything...

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TEHNOS
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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Holm86 wrote:
That is the famous dolphin nose from the pre '12 season speculations.
Image

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turbof1
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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horse wrote:
turbof1 wrote:We are basicilly saying the same thing :P
Yes, I see where you are coming from now. I thought you were implying that the diffuser was less powerful pre-2009, but I see now that is not the case. I think there were some rules about the pillars and wing centre section that produced that low nose design.
Oh certainly not. Those diffusers produced much more. Sorry that I have given you the wrong impression.

I never picked up on rules about pillars that specifically forced teams to build theirs in such a fashion. Could you perhaps try to look that up if true? I simply believe they used such small pillars because the nowadays neutral central section back then extended at the back of the pillars, producing downforce; the pillars might have intefered too much with that. The wing centre section was actually an area that was allowed to be lower then the rest of the wing. Purely a performance choice.
#AeroFrodo

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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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However much I love Blancimont, I think I prefer this slightly mistranslated nick name from the first person to point of the nose shape.

Image
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)

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theWPTformula
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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I think that there have been some quite extreme versions and I'm sure there will be some more elegant designs, some more so than others.

rjsa
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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Nice sketching!

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aleks_ader
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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For next year lower monocock rule could "easy" fix that, but for now we could just do somo tricks with existing rule about vannity panel, cuz some team already made monocock or at-least it is near finish. Maybe inmplementation of some sort continuous line, coutiniouse lateral crossections, mandated pillar + nose tip position could to some extents help esthetics's...
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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SectorOne
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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aleks_ader wrote:For next year lower monocock rule could "easy" fix that, but for now we could just do somo tricks with existing rule about vannity panel, cuz some team already made monocock or at-least it is near finish. Maybe inmplementation of some sort continuous line, coutiniouse lateral crossections, mandated pillar + nose tip position could to some extents help esthetics's...
=D>

We just can´t get away from the male genitals it seems :)
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Vasconia
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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gary123 wrote:http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... e_2014.jpg
http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/32568/ ... egole-2014
Here is what omnicorse thinks about the next year front design.
I really hope that the new noses look like this one, its a very nice one and much better than the rest.

aral
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Re: 2014 season - Ugliest noses ever?

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Vasconia wrote:
gary123 wrote:http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... e_2014.jpg
http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/32568/ ... egole-2014
Here is what omnicorse thinks about the next year front design.
I really hope that the new noses look like this one, its a very nice one and much better than the rest.
The simple fact is that no-one nose! :lol: :lol: