2015 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka

[AnthonyG]

Well...was it now good or wrong to avoid the contact? Talking about the championship...with going wide he definitely lost the championship. With staying on the curb and contact caused by Hamilton...maybe 50% chance of a DNF from Ham and unhappy crew for him.

Actually, it's the points difference that matthers.
Both crashing= 0 points difference
Rosberg behind Hamilton = >0 points difference

Crashing is the dominant strategy.

[NathanOlder]

I have to say, its the easiest iv seen someone pass Bottas, just a 1 off I reckon. Normally faultless and hard to pass. He still deserves a top drive. IMO

[Chuckjr]

Last time Ros was muscled out of the way by Ham it didn't go so well...spa 2014...Today Ros yielded. Ros was pummeled with criticism for his not moving over and letting Hamilton through in Spa. Today many say he should not have moved over for Ham, and darn near guarantee a crash because we know Hamilton was not about to stop pushing him off the track.

So whats the right thing for Ros to do then? Hold his ground and guarantee a crash, or move over and just let Hamilton push him out of the way?

[drunkf1fan]

You judge this with a faultless race in which the car just did not have the pace for P4? The car was overtaken on mediums by Merc doing a later stop...even magic Ham or Alo would have lost ground with that car.

Doesn't matter if he lost ground, it was bad defending and a weak move. Rosberg was right there, he positioned himself far too wide and left himself painfully open for that move. It was very much not a faultless drive. At a track where passing is incredibly difficult he pretty much moved out of the way for Rosberg, that is a huge mistake.

The only driver who did worse there was Sainz..... I honestly can't work out why Sainz appeared to actively move out of the way of Verstappen, particularly after last week. Maldonado was pretty far down the road and on far fresher tires. I actually lost track a bit but commentators were saying Maldonado dropping quite far back with them holding the pitstop till very late, did he catch up Grosjean with much fresher tires at the end, he was only a second behind. Likewise when Verstappen passed Sainz they said he was 9 seconds behind and finished well over 20 behind. If they asked Sainz to let him pass to have a go at Maldonado under those circumstances he should give the place back. But after last week I couldn't imagine them asking him.

I just can't figure out what Sainz was doing, has he given up. Feeling a bit like a no.2 driver after last week? I watched some of the post race but didn't see anything about that situation.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Today Ros yielded.

So whats the right thing for Ros to do then? Hold his ground and guarantee a crash, or move over and just let Hamilton push him out of the way?

Although Lewis got a good start, but he was still behind by the first corner. What Nico should have done, was to close the door hard on first corner itself rather than moving out to go on racing line. Of course there would have been a danger of someone else overtaking from outside, but with the car he had, he could could have easily done a pass or undercut. Allowing the door open to Lewis was enough an invitation and what Lewis did in turn 2, is what Nico should have done in turn 1. Probably Nico would have been criticized, but it was better to be criticized for closing the door, rather than a contact in turn 2.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

I have to say, its the easiest iv seen someone pass Bottas, just a 1 off I reckon. Normally faultless and hard to pass. He still deserves a top drive. IMO

He let the door wide open again, we have seen that also in the first lap against Hamilton during the British Grand Prix.

[turbof1]

The more we are watching, the more Bottas is losing the stocks. He doesn't seem to have anything special that takes him to a top team.
Max showing once again, he is better of the two in TR. Sainz doing a lot of school boy errors.
Kvyat, really overrated and quite lucky to have gotten into the RB team. So many mistakes throughout the weekend.
I see Max moving into RB at the expense of Kvyat next year, to off set Ferrari's plan of poaching him as they have Kimi as the stop gap until 2017.

I think Lewis's chopping of Nico looked a bit dangerous but that is because Nico couldn't really push Lewis at the first turn and as Lewis got so much space at turn 1, it was easy to push to turn 2 and close the door on Nico. Nico need to learn to seize these moments (not the Spa way) if he really wants to get ahead of Lewis.

Ferrari's pace on Mediums was awful as Nico closed down on Vettel in the second stint on hards. Although the pace looked like equal on hards between Nico and Vettel, but when you compare the quicker Merc and quicker Ferrari, the gap was quite large on a circuit is not the biggest on the calendar.

Bottas might not have a lot of flair around him, but I do find him a great driver. In my eyes he has what it takes for a seat at a top team. He simply does not like being sensational, but he does get the job done.

I also think Max deserves Kyvat's seat next year, although in all fairness Sainz does as well. Let's not forget Max made a couple of rookie mistakes as well this year. Granted, overall he looks to be the better of Sainz. He is, as Hamilton would say it, more hungry.

I can't make a comment on the race yet simply because I did have time yet to watch it. I'll do so later on.

[ringo]

Lewis was tough in the 2nd corner, but if you look through every GP of the season I bet we can find a moment where every driver has done something similar given the same opportunity.

It might not be right but thats how racing works.

I stated that imo Rosberg shouldn't have yielded. I know it's not nice from Hamilton and I don't "hate" him, but saying like Ringo that he had every right to do it and Rosberg should have jumped out of the way like he did that's the world upside down.

I must admit, from teammates you'd expect them to show more respect from eachother.
But on the other hand, a team just wants that they don't crash, they don't care who yields, just as long as someone does. We've seen in the past this played out in favor of Hamilton, it's grown historically to this point.

well it was suggested that rosberg "should have crashed" hamilton. That is not justified by any racing standard.
Rosberg had no ground to hold, he was on an offcamber turn, and more than likely he couldn't even turn in the car anymore because of understeer. To say that he should crash his teammate is ridiculous. There was nothing rosberg could do but ease off. In fact if he eased off he would have been P2 after lap1.

[ringo]

Last time Ros was muscled out of the way by Ham it didn't go so well...spa 2014...Today Ros yielded. Ros was pummeled with criticism for his not moving over and letting Hamilton through in Spa. Today many say he should not have moved over for Ham, and darn near guarantee a crash because we know Hamilton was not about to stop pushing him off the track.

So whats the right thing for Ros to do then? Hold his ground and guarantee a crash, or move over and just let Hamilton push him out of the way?

He himself pushed off Hamilton in Hungary this year. Didn't leave a car's width on the outside and Lewis locked up and wet off. That's just the name of the game. Discussing whether a driver crashes out his teammate to influence the championship is not sportsmanlike or a sign of a good driver. It's unfortunately encouraging nasty habits from great drivers like shu or senna.

[ringo]

The more we are watching, the more Bottas is losing the stocks. He doesn't seem to have anything special that takes him to a top team.
Max showing once again, he is better of the two in TR. Sainz doing a lot of school boy errors.
Kvyat, really overrated and quite lucky to have gotten into the RB team. So many mistakes throughout the weekend.
I see Max moving into RB at the expense of Kvyat next year, to off set Ferrari's plan of poaching him as they have Kimi as the stop gap until 2017.

I think Lewis's chopping of Nico looked a bit dangerous but that is because Nico couldn't really push Lewis at the first turn and as Lewis got so much space at turn 1, it was easy to push to turn 2 and close the door on Nico. Nico need to learn to seize these moments (not the Spa way) if he really wants to get ahead of Lewis.

Ferrari's pace on Mediums was awful as Nico closed down on Vettel in the second stint on hards. Although the pace looked like equal on hards between Nico and Vettel, but when you compare the quicker Merc and quicker Ferrari, the gap was quite large on a circuit is not the biggest on the calendar.

Bottas might not have a lot of flair around him, but I do find him a great driver. In my eyes he has what it takes for a seat at a top team. He simply does not like being sensational, but he does get the job done.

I also think Max deserves Kyvat's seat next year, although in all fairness Sainz does as well. Let's not forget Max made a couple of rookie mistakes as well this year. Granted, overall he looks to be the better of Sainz. He is, as Hamilton would say it, more hungry.

I can't make a comment on the race yet simply because I did have time yet to watch it. I'll do so later on.

I don't think we should jump the gun on Max yet. Kyvat is a pretty good driver. I don't think Max is at that level yet. We basically a seeing the rookie shine at the moment. It's like Diresta and some other seeming great rookies. The tend to fade shortly after. In fairness to Kyvat he was suffering from brake issues this race, and could not use overtake at all throughout the whole race. I think he did a good job keeping pace in the race. He definitely is one of the fastest drivers in the sport though. I suspect at his best he has more raw pace than riciardo.

[jericho]

I don't think we should jump the gun on Max yet. Kyvat is a pretty good driver. I don't think Max is at that level yet. We basically a seeing the rookie shine at the moment. It's like Diresta and some other seeming great rookies. The tend to fade shortly after. In fairness to Kyvat he was suffering from brake issues this race, and could not use overtake at all throughout the whole race. I think he did a good job keeping pace in the race. He definitely is one of the fastest drivers in the sport though. I suspect at his best he has more raw pace than riciardo.

I don't think Di Resta and Kvyat were doing the same as Verstappen in their rookie season. Verstappen is showing some exceptional overtaking skills. Even in difficult races, he overtakes in ways others rookies couldn't pull off. Verstappen is a good asset for F1.

[zeph]

But Verstappen's move on Alonso wasn't all that extraordinary. NBC commentators were jubilant about how young Max overtook a double champion on the outside, but with the speed deficit the only extraordinary thing is how long Alonso managed to keep so many guys behind him.


People seem to make a big deal about Alonso's radio comment, too, but for perspective: it was said in the heat of the moment, and he couldn't know whether or not it would be broadcast. Also, we don't know when exactly he said it.
The notion that it was a deliberate thing to ruffle some feathers is ludicrous, IMO.

[iotar__]

I don't think Di Resta and Kvyat were doing the same as Verstappen in their rookie season. Verstappen is showing some exceptional overtaking skills. Even in difficult races, he overtakes in ways others rookies couldn't pull off. Verstappen is a good asset for F1.

Name them without over-blowing basic ones or those with a big pace advantage (I can give you rookies better at overtaking). One missing is the one on Perez in Singapore, that could have been a good one - not even an attempt . On the other side I can name you plenty of exceptionally bad attempts: Grosjean Monaco, Bottas Spa, Raikkonen Spa, air in Barcelona. He's basically learning wheel to wheel and braking points at F1 level panicking all the time and you are running out of adjectives with "exceptional"? Routine against slow Sauber with a rookie after couple of hesitant moves is Spa? Verstappen is barely saved by his age, car, team orders and undeserved hype that is silent with every failure.

Ricciardo had another one-sided collision without a penalty (Monaco, Austria, Hungary) and another race lost at the start. He took out several drivers again through domino effect - nothing. Why even attempt clean driving?

Hamilton - the usual overtaking by cutting across into the other car, that was worse than Spa '14 so I wonder what kind of internal penalties you can expect now? Nothing? "My corner" is just a poor excuse for dirty driving. Mercedes' driver management is simply hypocritical: Bahrain '14 - nothing, Spa - Wolff and Lauda kept talking publicly how that was unacceptable, now - nothing. Pseudo competition.

[iotar__]

But Verstappen's move on Alonso wasn't all that extraordinary. NBC commentators were jubilant about how young Max overtook a double champion on the outside, but with the speed deficit the only extraordinary thing is how long Alonso managed to keep so many guys behind him.

People seem to make a big deal about Alonso's radio comment, too, but for perspective: it was said in the heat of the moment, and he couldn't know whether or not it would be broadcast. Also, we don't know when exactly he said it.
The notion that it was a deliberate thing to ruffle some feathers is ludicrous, IMO.

Fine but he can always clarify it when he's not in the heat of the moment, can't he? I thought Alonso made the right choice leaving Ferrari? Based on off track related words he seems like a decent human being but when it comes to F1 only it's an alternative reality of hypocrisy. Your GP2 engine is your perfect choice so be silent about it or modify your previous statements. You should also remind the world 30 (?) million pay-check to drive any engine you are given. It's another after Red Bull example of embracing current F1 and lamenting it when you're on the other end.

[f1316]

Ferrari's pace on Mediums was awful as Nico closed down on Vettel in the second stint on hards. Although the pace looked like equal on hards between Nico and Vettel, but when you compare the quicker Merc and quicker Ferrari, the gap was quite large on a circuit is not the biggest on the calendar.

In the second stint Ferrari were on hards, nico on mediums, so not sure what you mean. It's hardly surprising that they were much slower.

Edit: sorry, both were on hards.

What I really don't understand is why they didn't go to mediums on the final stint. Yes, they probably wouldn't have lasted to the end pitting when they did, but they already got jumped by rosberg on the undercut (was never likely to cover it off) so why not go a bit longer and do something different? I thought that was a missed opportunity, not for the win, but for a chance of 2nd + for the spectacle.