At today's World Motorsport Council at Paris, the judges have decided to put Renault on probatation until the end of 2011, during which no further offences must be found. Former Renault F1 heads Briatore and Symonds are both punished severely and banned of FIA events.
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Obviously, Senna taking out Prost in Japan 1990 was next to criminal. Interesting enough, he admitted the deed a year later, but there was nobody to suggest any retroactive punishment then.
Should the WDC been taken away from him retroactively?
What happened the year before was a little different, I think Prost deliberately took a tighter line, but that was his privilege as he had the corner.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
Classic Prost fan BS... he did not have the corner if he could not turn without hitting Senna... race car driving 101, give proper racing room. And Senna did not admit to causing contact, he admitted that he would not let off, no matter where Prost went, Senna was all the way to the right, again another case of Prost not allowing proper racing room.
When you are on the highway, do you merge into the next lane when you are only 50% clear/ahead of the car in it?
ISLAMATRON wrote:Yep, Massa caused Bourdais to crash if I remember correctly, that incident, and the BS fuji penalty in the MAssa/Bourdais coming together may have prematurely put Seb's F1 career to rest.
1 year later?
How about the Heikki/Bourdais incident in this year's edition of the Silverstone GP, where HK was so busy making way for His Royal Majesty The Champ he didn't even see Bourdais?
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
ISLAMATRON wrote:Yep, Massa caused Bourdais to crash if I remember correctly, that incident, and the BS fuji penalty in the MAssa/Bourdais coming together may have prematurely put Seb's F1 career to rest.
1 year later?
How about the Heikki/Bourdais incident in this year's edition of the Silverstone GP, where HK was so busy making way for His Royal Majesty The Champ he didn't even see Bourdais?
That whole incident was hilarious wasnt it? But Bourdais was just keeping the seat warm for whatever youngster that was going to bring in the new money by then. I really didnt expect them to bring him back this year but I guess Sato couldnt get anymore money to fund his career.
I’m not saying Renault did, but, this is how I think it would have played out if they did.
If Renault did conspire to change the result due to an intentional safety car period, then this would have to be a premeditated action, by senior members of the team sometime after Q3 and the race.
This was not a MS spontaneous act of stupidity, such as Monaco, as the Singapore crash by Piquet was not self serving. Back to Monaco, telemetry revealed that MS braked 50% harder for that corner than previous laps, and was counter steering at 10mph, before he parked it up, and switched the engine off. However, the stewards afterwards did say, that if he had damaged the car in the incident (e.g. knocked the front wing off) they would looked at the incident differently and not imposed any sanctions upon him.
Renault have one of the best race strategists in Pat Symonds, who has been ‘round the block’ a few times and knows how the system works. He’s been with the team along time, right back to the MS, Benetton days of traction control that was fitted to the cars, but never used.
If Renault were to ‘stage a crash’ then there would be no incriminating radio traffic for the FIA to find. Piquet would be told to crash on lap 14, unless he heard an abort phrase on the radio (Alonso might bin it on the first lap), thus leaving no evidence.
Alonso probably would be kept of the loop, and wouldn’t be told what was being planned. He has a recent history of being a whistleblower/blackmailer and would not need to be told, to make the plan work.
Renault not necessarily aiming for the win with this strategy, Alonso was quick all weekend, and just needed a shove up the grid so he could fight it out with the front runners for a podium. As it worked out, they got the win, that bit was probably good fortune.
So what will the FIA investigation find. Not much, no incriminating photocopied documents or stolen computer discs. No unusual radio chatter – ‘bin it now Nelson!’ only the word of a sacked bitter driver, and the telemetry from the car.
The telemetry may shows that for the previous dozen laps before the accident Piquet had used e.g. 30% throttle at the apex of the corner, and gently applied and increased the throttle through the exit.
If on the lap when he binned it, he used 30% through the apex, then exiting the corner he floored it to 100%, and kept his foot down throughout the spin, then this may be enough for the inquiry to convict Renault, of a deliberate act of race fixing.
Shaddock wrote:Here’s my take on the Singapore incident;
I’m not saying Renault did, but, this is how I think it would have played out if they did.
If Renault did conspire to change the result due to an intentional safety car period, then this would have to be a premeditated action, by senior members of the team sometime after Q3 and the race.
This was not a MS spontaneous act of stupidity, such as Monaco, as the Singapore crash by Piquet was not self serving. Back to Monaco, telemetry revealed that MS braked 50% harder for that corner than previous laps, and was counter steering at 10mph, before he parked it up, and switched the engine off. However, the stewards afterwards did say, that if he had damaged the car in the incident (e.g. knocked the front wing off) they would looked at the incident differently and not imposed any sanctions upon him.
Renault have one of the best race strategists in Pat Symonds, who has been ‘round the block’ a few times and knows how the system works. He’s been with the team along time, right back to the MS, Benetton days of traction control that was fitted to the cars, but never used.
If Renault were to ‘stage a crash’ then there would be no incriminating radio traffic for the FIA to find. Piquet would be told to crash on lap 14, unless he heard an abort phrase on the radio (Alonso might bin it on the first lap), thus leaving no evidence.
Alonso probably would be kept of the loop, and wouldn’t be told what was being planned. He has a recent history of being a whistleblower/blackmailer and would not need to be told, to make the plan work.
Renault not necessarily aiming for the win with this strategy, Alonso was quick all weekend, and just needed a shove up the grid so he could fight it out with the front runners for a podium. As it worked out, they got the win, that bit was probably good fortune.
So what will the FIA investigation find. Not much, no incriminating photocopied documents or stolen computer discs. No unusual radio chatter – ‘bin it now Nelson!’ only the word of a sacked bitter driver, and the telemetry from the car.
The telemetry may shows that for the previous dozen laps before the accident Piquet had used e.g. 30% throttle at the apex of the corner, and gently applied and increased the throttle through the exit.
If on the lap when he binned it, he used 30% through the apex, then exiting the corner he floored it to 100%, and kept his foot down throughout the spin, then this may be enough for the inquiry to convict Renault, of a deliberate act of race fixing.
Do you have the MS telemetry? im sure your wrong he made a mistake why would he cheat for?
Shaddock wrote:Here’s my take on the Singapore incident;
This was not a MS spontaneous act of stupidity, such as Monaco, as the Singapore crash by Piquet was not self serving. Back to Monaco, telemetry revealed that MS braked 50% harder for that corner than previous laps, and was counter steering at 10mph, before he parked it up, and switched the engine off. However, the stewards afterwards did say, that if he had damaged the car in the incident (e.g. knocked the front wing off) they would looked at the incident differently and not imposed any sanctions upon him.
Do you have the MS telemetry? im sure your wrong he made a mistake why would he cheat for?
The MS/Monaco case was proven by the FIA, case closed. I can post the telemetry tonight, but it won’t change the outcome. The point I was making was that the FIA will use discrepancies in Piquets telemetry from that corner to prove their case against Renault.
Shaddock wrote:The point I was making was that the FIA will use discrepancies in Piquets telemetry from that corner to prove their case against Renault.
You have to keep in mind that it is Piquet's case and not MS'. Discrepancy that could be considered deliberate act for Schu may well have be random error for Nelson Jr.
I bet Renault can show many other examples where he spun off.
Shaddock wrote:The point I was making was that the FIA will use discrepancies in Piquets telemetry from that corner to prove their case against Renault.
You have to keep in mind that it is Piquet's case and not MS'. Discrepancy that could be considered deliberate act for Schu may well have be random error for Nelson Jr.
I bet Renault can show many other examples where he spun off.
Agreed, and the data from the telemetry wont be black and white. But the FIA will be looking for a big difference in throttle position and steering input in that corner, compared to previous laps.
It will still come down to someone’s opinion and interpretation of the data.
The FIA used some skilled investigators who also caught the guys who set up Mosley for the sex scandal. When these pros put Renault team members to questioning and threaten the full weight of the FIA's power over their licensees someone will yield. Particularly if Piquet was providing details on the job which can be used to pressurise some team members to start with. By adding the testimony the digging will go deeper and deeper very quickly.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue wrote:The FIA used some skilled investigators who also caught the guys who set up Mosley for the sex scandal. When these pros put Renault team members to questioning and threaten the full weight of the FIA's power over their licensees someone will yield. Particularly if Piquet was providing details on the job which can be used to pressurise some team members to start with. By adding the testimony the digging will go deeper and deeper very quickly.
Yet again you presume guilt - no doubt I have got the "context" wrong.
