Flexible wings controversy 2010

[speedsense]

Do you think the FIA guys are that stupid to not check the function of the actuator? I don't think this could be overseen or they allow such a misuse.

The procedure would determine that, depending on how it's applied or tested. Apparently it's a vertical weight test and may not have the position of the actuator as part of the test, just the flex of the wing. They may just simply test for strength of the wing and nothing else.
The end of the actuator that goes through the wing to an end plate inboard could be made in such a way that in one position it provides vertical strength to the wing keeping it from flexing, in the other positions it wouldn't. When they tech the car they would make sure it's in the non flexing position and pass all the weight tests.
Seems logical and very possible to me...IMHO...

[mep]

Yes for sure but there must be a seperate controll of the actuator.
You could do whatever you want with it when FIA doesn't controll it.

[marcush.]

Yes for sure but there must be a seperate controll of the actuator.
You could do whatever you want with it when FIA doesn't controll it.

I´m sure thats not on... as fia will of course control the movement of it...but as it is, the actuator needs to be initialised to be able to know where it is.That would be a std operation you do when mounting the part to the car (nosebox change,anyone?)
so you could of course have the actuator assume one endstop position automatically ,which "accidently" contributes to the stiffness of the wing. voila ,as soon as there is no power the wing is stiff..not that complicated.

actually the actuator needs to signal back its movement to the ecu as well..

[mx_tifoso]

In case it is the actuator that controls the flexibility of the FW; what if the actuator breaks or is damaged and the FIA checks the wing after the race? That's pretty risky IMO. Just the fact that the actuator controls the flexibility is risky, since any simple check of the front wing would reveal the system.

I just might agree with the people who mentioned the actuators weight on the end plates having to do with the flexing.

[xpensive]

I agree with the moderator here, don't know where this idea came from, but it's a little to conspiracy-like even for me.

Besides, I doubt that turning a flap at the end of the wing would do much to change the stiffness of the entire wing, when peak moment obviously will be in the center-section of the same.

[marcush.]

for me the most plausible explanation is :let the fibre layup do the work .,have a stringer run along the span of the wing wich is adjustable in length so you can control maximum flex and let the weight in the endplate help the bending ....
everything else maybe feasible but would be just too fishy..still this will not explain the apparent midsection movement ...

[donskar]

Please feel free to correct me, but haven't the FIA technical people made a special inspection (additional to the usual race scrutineering) of the RB and Ferrari wings and found them to be legal?

Newey found a way to successfully implement the EBD; most teams have been able to copy it (with varying success), so it's OK. Now Newey has found a way to get a "legal" flexible wing; Ferrari has copied it (with some success), but McL and Mercedes can't figure it out, so they want a "clarification." I assume their real goal is to get the wings banned.

Does "legal" mean "simple enough that everyone can copy it?" Are we slowly moving toward an F1 spec car?

[mx_tifoso]

Please feel free to correct me, but haven't the FIA technical people made a special inspection (additional to the usual race scrutineering) of the RB and Ferrari wings and found them to be legal?

As far as I know only the normal scrutineering checks have taken place from the German GP. But Mercedes and McLaren want additional checks just "to make sure" before they commit to their own.

[747heavy]

does anyone know how strict is the midsection of the FW defined by the FIA?
Is it just the dimension and shape, or does it include the material and layup/resin used
of the part as well?
Or is it a standard part supplied by FIA (or a FIA approved supplier, like the SECU)?

Thanks

[rei]

I think redbull wing its not flex and bend, but the nose is flexing down, which activated by suspension movement under braking

[mep]

I´m sure thats not on... as fia will of course cotrol the movement of it...but as it is the actuator needs to be initialised .to be able to know where it is.that would be a std operation you do when monting the part to the car (nosebox change,anyone?)
so you could of course have the ctuator assume one endstop position automatically ,which acidently contributes to the stifffness of the wing. voila ,as soon as there is no power the wing is stiff..not that complicated.

ahl jhg fkdhtze zhwgnhwgh
sorry, but I don't really get what you want to say.

Anyway doesn't matter. I still think that there should be a FIA engineer who can spot such a function when he checks the car. Especially after McLaren told them to pay attention to it.
Somehow I would love to see that they abuse this actuator to something different because I don't really like the rule to change the wing angle with a mechanical device. The idea is probably more than 40 years old and FIA suddenly allows it to improve overtaking. I don't know of any overtaking maneuver carried out by this.
Bending carbon wings and blows rear wings are state of the art.
Changing wing angle with a mechanical device is old fashioned. Invented during a time where wings where made of aluminum. Next year they want to allow a changing rear wing too. They should better allow the f-duct than another old-fashioned mechanical solution.

for me the most plausible explanation is :let the fibre layup do the work .,have a stringer run along the span of the wing wich is adjustable in length so you can control maximum flex and let the weight in the endplate help the bending ....

Weight in the endplates......
You also have the weight during scruteneering so it doesn't help you at all.
But you helped me to come up with a good argument why they don't have weight or the actuator in the wing tips. You remember we were wondering about that pic:

[/quote]

When you have a soft wing and add some weight to the tips it will start to oscillate like a bird after drinking to much RedBulls.
Wing tips must be as light as possible so you better place the actuator in the middle section or best don’t use it at all.

[marcush.]

you are right ,the weight will not help ..just make it oscillate more severely (like last year,see high speed vids).

[bill shoe]

747heavy- The FIA does not supply a physical part for the center profile. The rules have a table of dimensions that effectively spec the center profile for the teams. The teams then make the entire wing including the spec-profile center section.

I previously said that the 25mm of Red Bull sag could be explained by wings with linear flexibility at the FIA allowed 10mm deflection per 50kg load. However, (and the TV commentators are not clear about this) now I think McLaren et al are actually saying the Reb Bull deflection is at least 25mm beyond any plausible linear flexing. It just got interesting!!

[FLC]

From autosport.com:

Rival outfits do not have a firm answer for exactly what the two pace-setting teams are doing, and the FIA has found nothing wrong with the cars. However, attention is now shifting to a cleverly designed floor area that could help allow the wing to lower at high speed - rather than the key to the matter being simply flexible endplates.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85758

[010010011010]

Anti rollbar mechanism in the wing, A long strip of material that is strong when facing up the way and can be turned flat to allow flex. Thats my theory, probably wrong though